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Speaking about computers inside things....

I can not wait for the car market to catch up with the PC market. Why does my car not have a hard drive? I want to be able to store maps. mp3s, hell even word and excel files. Imagine if my car could sit in my garage and email me a outlook task notice that it needs its oil change in a week or two… or that the tires need changing. What if my car could synchronize with my PC sharing all contact information, all appointments, all tasks? Dam it if I can do it with a palm or cell phone, why not the piece of equipment that I just spent $30,000 on? I have teachers email me all the time in the morning… but guess what, I don’t have time to read email before class… I get out the house ASAP. But what if I could read my mail when I get to the parking lot? What if I could have my emails read to me as I drive to class?

Now don’t act all smart and say cars already have hard drives and other PC components. I admit that they have stuff… but the stuff is being gated by the car industry just like Mainframes were gated by the universities. I want it like PCs where the people have access. Where open source drives innovation, were mods make life better. A few years ago I saw a show where car-hackers were doing some small time tweaks to their rides… but I am talking about bring this stuff to the masses just like the PC brought computers to the masses.

It is BS that a greasy mechanic can plug some 1980’s technology into my car for diagnostics, then turn around and charge me a few hundreds for something no harder than plugging un a USB device. I can do that…. Just for fun I would love to do better than that. I want to buy programs that work with my car. Schedule/task list so can keep track of maintenance.... and I can actually log each time maintenance gets done so I will actually remember how long it has been sense my tires were rotated. Sure you can do all this maintenance tracking from home... but my problem is I forget about it when I get home.... if I could look up this stuff when I think about them (sitting in the car) it would be a much better, much more accurate system.

Obo, or Yak… why don’t you guys make a way I can send messages to other cars. Imagine targeting a car next to you and doing the equivalent to /tt Hey I am lost, how do I get back to the interstate? Or /tt hey your back tire is almost flat, or /tt hey you left your purse is on top of your car.

What if you could filter this chat… so if you don’t want it you can avoid it? Maybe you could have the passenger type text… for those with kids who don’t want cursing from strangers audible, or you could have voice to text translator so the driver can send without typing.



My point is that when small time guys like Obo and Yak are able to make scripts and programs for cars, the possibilities are endless. Innovation of this sort will grow at a snails pace unless until people like Yak and Obo can try their hands at this stuff.

or /tt "Hey @$$%^&*!! Where'd you get your driver's license? WALMART???!"

yeah, good idea Cyrus.

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That was the first reason I thought of this idea.

And that was the first reason I thought of the filter.

Cyrus, you are better off with a Blackberry for most of what you've asked for. It's kinda like the Car Phone. Now with Cell Phones as ubiquitous as they are, you rarely have a need for a car to have a built in phone. (Hands-free yes, but not built in)

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Can a blackberry target an anonymous car and send a message? Blackberries are good.... but I would like the car to be a smarter machine. Let me pull up the data on my air filter, my breaks, my acceleration, tire pressure.... let me see how they are doing and if they can be changed to do better.

Despite all the improvements cars have see over the years.... if you think about it the dashboard display is very primitive. Bulbs light up behind symbols when there is a problem... if they blink it means one thing... the check engine blinks a patter to tell us different info. That is primitive... like the knobs on the death star... very old school. This is 2005, that car needs an interface like the Enterprise from star Trek.

Hell I have a microwave with a better communication skills than my car. Don’t blink lights… spell it out in English! Where are the system readouts, where are the engine data tables. Why doesn’t my Car have a readme file so I can see the parts that make up my car. Why do I have to pay a mechanic a few hours of labor to tell me I need ModelXYZ fuse, bulb, gizmo. If I know the bulb is out, why cant I look that info up in my car’s readme file?

From the time I got my first PC to today, computers, peripherals, and toys have leaped forward with amazing advancement. Look how small flash drives and mp3 players are today, look at all they store. Look at the advances with wireless connectivity.

I would love to have a car that does this. Although by 2007, I think it is mandatory that 3/4 of the cars sold in the U.S. will have tire pressure/temperature gauges as part of the dash panel display. So maybe it is coming, just slower than we'd all like. If anyone can mod up my car to do the things that Cyrus is talking about (sans the inter-car communcation system), I'd totally pay to have it done.

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The fact is that most modern cars (at least the european/japanese ones I am accustomed to) already have a lot of the features you're talking about Cyrus, they just don't bother the owner too much with them.



Brakes often have wear indicators telling you (by flashing lamp) when it's time to renew brake pads, tire pressure is also being measured by quite a few cars. Acceleration and every other parameter having to do with engine control is being measured and adjusted hundreds of times every second to give the engine the best possible performance and fuel economy regardless of conditions.

.

Most german cars (probably other too but I don't know too much about them) already does this: They display when it's time for oil change, main services and that sort of thing.



Cars do have an advanced interface that can tell you almost everything that might be wrong with it, but you still need advanced equipment only found in decent garages to hook up to it. Most of this information isn't something the ordinary car user would have any use of knowing about as you usually can't fix the more advanced problems by yourself anyway.

Interface like Enterprise? No thanks, I wouldn't want that if someone threw it after me, I think the cars interface with the user should be kept as simple and informative as possible, to avoid distractions when driving.
If you ever get a chance, take a look at the I-Drive system in a BMW 7-series and tell me how you like it. The system is designed to control every thinkable gadget/mechanism like radio, navigation, phone, climate control, seat position, you name it.



Readme files exist, good example here: http://www.bentleypublishers.com/ although somewhat expensive, this is probably the same literature most repair shops use.

It seems to me that what you need is a PC in your car, not necessarily integrated with your car but more as a standalone entertainment/communications system.

One last thing: If you need a computer to tell you which light bulb to replace or when you need to rotate your tires, you're probably better off getting a mechanic to do it in the first place. Not saying that you, Cyrus, need this, but people who can't figure these simple things out for themselves would probably screw up something if they tried to change a bulb.

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"It's sort of a philosophical question...if a tissue fails to modify a skill that doesn't exist, and no one is around, will any devs hear you screaming?"

My wife’s uncles owns 2 mechanics shops. I am aware of what they can see. It is a shame the rest of us don’t have access to this information. It is a shame the programs they use feel like pong while the rest of the world is playing next-gen MMOs

I just made my last payment on my 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. I have every option available for it except OnStar. It does not have the tire pressure.... I really want that... but I know it does many of the things I ask for in the background.

It has a cool heads-up display that projects information on my windshield. It has a bar graph that shows when my boost is being used, it shows information on my traction control, it shows if any door or trunk is open, and it shows when fluid of different types is low. In my cars trip computer I can see many things. It tells me my miles per gallon it is getting, it tells me how much fuel is left, it tells me how much fuel I have used, It tells me how many miles I can go before running out of gas, and it tells me when I need an oil change.

However after looking at the calculations of the trip computer, I am not overly impressed with its accuracy. The only information that it a hard number is miles driven and fuel used. From those two numbers it projects the rest.... and the rest while being better than nothing, it is not as accurate as today’s computers are capable of. It has the brains of a watch… not very impressive.

If my car had a processor like my PC, if my car has ram like my PC, if my car has a hard drive like my PC, the manufactures could develop better programs to run on my car. My TI8900 calculator has more power that my cars trip computer. The default settings adjusting my cars engine are just that, default. Sure they do a good job… but shouldn’t I as the owner be able to change its profiles? I am a guy that has every part of my PC looking different than everybody else. Nothing default remains on my PC. I would like to be able to get away from the default setting in my car.

I do not want the interface to be too complicated. Keep the driving parts simple so that people can stay on the road. However access to the complex stuff needs to accessible for owners who want more out of their car. Now that many Americas are getting dashboard screens and dvd players in their cars, it is only a matter of time before we can use those monitors like we use our PC monitor/


When I wanted to hardwire my radar detector into my car…. Why did I have to cut the wire, fit it with a male fuse adapter, and plug it into my radio fuse slot? It would be so much better if my car has usb-like slots so that adding peripherals can be easy. PCs had a time when we could not add what we wanted… but over time consumer’s wants made it to where usb slots are in the front and back… and many good PCs have more than we will ever need.

It is time for cars to catch up.

I personally would rather have a car I can fix myself than have a whole load of fancy electronics that requires an IT Consultant to determine what's wrong. But then, I am a mechanical engineer (ok, not quite, but the title will do for now!) and so that's the sort of thing I'd like to do.

My ideal car is one that was built in the 50s and 60s and would just need a good old bash with a big stick to get it started!

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Working on it...

For links to many of the things below, check out the enGadget blog. Good stuff.

Actually, the newest batch of cars have up to 18 antennas. Many wirelessly connect to each other. Most of the newest also send updates on component status through systems like onStar and such.

I've been thinking for years about how you would be able to email other cars, but I can't think that it'd be used for anything more than spamming, advertising, pr0n requests, and yelling at each other for disobeying rules. Any requests for information could be satisfied by a really accurate GPS system. Any thoughts on this?

The real benefit is when every car has a GPS that pulls location, a satellite linkup that pulls updated map information and some feedback system where the cars tell the entire system where slick roads, accidents, or bad pavement are. You could even argue with perfect information people could have a variable speed limit -- if you qualify as a better driver, and the road is long and clear and in good repair and car density is low and weather and visibility is great, you might be allowed to drive at 125 MPH. (200 Kph for you Euros). I miss the days of living in Germany where I could drive my BMW at those speeds every day.

In college, I helped build an autonomous rover -- a military HMMWV (pronounced "hum-vee") that would drive itself at 25 MPH and obey street signs. It would follow roads, and do very well... except that it would always confuse shadows with puddles of water and try to avoid them. Last I heard, they were adding microwaves to act as radar. To summarize: this stuff is coming, it's just taking a while as lives are on the line and you want it all to be perfect.

For emailing... there's a toilet available that emails medical information to your doctor automatically (and autoflushes and warms the seat. Sweet!). This guy (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000950036907/) has installed Linux on his Motorcycle to record video from his helmet.

And, like Kharlaq says, the newest German cars have some really really amazing stuff.

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--The Hermit

Along these lines, the recently released updated Acura RL model has an optional system that apparently provides real-time traffic information specific to the area you are driving in...not sure if it is limited to major metropolitan zones...but thought it was interesting.

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I think almost every American county is required to keep traffic averages per every major road. The problem is that there's no one currently collecting all of it and building in some sort of predictive service for large-scale traffic. I'm guessing that maps.google.com or mapquest will probably try to integrate it -- so if you search from x to y leaving at 8am, it will route you around the highways that are grid-locked.

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--The Hermit

This reminds me...I have been wanting the following for so many years:

I wish the road would broadcast the speed limit to my car. That way I know what the limit is. To often I don’t know how fast I am allowed to go. I think it would be cool if the road or signs broadcast the limit so my car could display it to me anytime I needed to know.

I don’t want the broadcast to override my control.... just have the number up on my HUD... maybe turn my speedometer red when I am over the limit, and green with I am below it.

Ummmm...

Take this as you will. My father was a cop that had to give out at least X tickets per month, so I may have a slightly different view of things.


If your car stopped you from speeding... or auto-payerd your parking meters... how would cities get money to pay for roads or repairs?

And, wouldn't most people just turn off the annoying 'blink-blink' that indicated they are speeding? Or set it 5 miles higher than the limit?

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--The Hermit

I have had a $300 radar detector ever sense I was 17 years old. Each time my car was broken into, the thieves stole my CD player and my Radar detector. My last CD player (1997) cost me $1,200 and it could filter out radio stations by type and would adjust based on the city I entered. For Talk radio I could hit one button and it would return only talk radio, there was another button for Rock, one for Country, one for Rap, one for Classic and several others. My Car Audio attracted thieves like white on rice. I was hit by professionals who were able to bypass my car alarm, and unlock my CD player which had its own anti theft system. And uninstall the hardware which required special tools to discourage thieves.

Each time my car was broken into I did not always buy a new CD player but I bought a new detector right away... that is how much I love Belltronics radar detectors.

Now I have my windows illegally tented to 5% so no one can see inside my car and steel my stuff. ** I have a doctors certificate for sun allergen that allows this otherwise illegal tint.** This tint is the best thing keeping thieves away. I have not had a break in yet… but I also don’t have a good CD player anymore.

Anyway back to why broadcasting speed limits is a good thing:

When I am jamming to my music..... and I wake up from the concert in my mind... I sometime wonder what the speed limit is. Sometimes I enter a town and wonder if I the speed limit reduces or not. Some cases it does not... yet I am curious if I missed a sign. In this case having a speed limit display inside my car would be a good thing for both me and the people of the town. Also when I pick up a radar signal I would like to know the limit. I don’t speed on purpose, but when I catch a cop looking, I would like to make sure I am driving the correct speed.

Police are to serve and protect. Not farm gold. I would think a system that shows everyone the speed limit would be safer than one cop reminding people to slow down. No doubt special interests would fight like mad to keeping drivers from knowing the speed limit.... but don’t you see how backwards such logic is? Info is power, speed limit info could save lives... why hoard such info? The logic to hoard info is equivalent to the tire companies banning in-car tire-pressure-monitoring… because the more flats you have, the more money the tire companies make. That logic does not fly… neither should blocking speed limit broadcasts for gold farming reasons.

Besides in Baton Rouge, the cops don’t give speeding tickets, they are often worried about other things, and they give tickets for other things when they are out farming gold.

Perfect description... but that's the reality of the issue.

But, I agree that what you're asking for should be available. It would be very very expensive to deploy, require either everyone to buy additional software, or to modify all cars to accept these transmissions or information, and be relatively easy to hack... but definately worth while.

I still think a GPS-type satellite feedback system is the answer. Why not download all the current speed limits with your real-time traffic data of your location? That way it's flexible-ish, and can interface with existing hardware...

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--The Hermit

Anything is better than what I have now.... which is the theme of this thread. I just think cars have missed out on the innovative energy that camera phones, PDAs and mp3 players have seen over the last decade.

I cant wait for the day when my car is and integral and interlinked part of my personal computing network. Turning a car into more of a PC is the answer to so much of what I desire. I want to know things about my car... such as what speeds are most fuel efficient for its shape and engine makeup. Right now I have no idea... but with sensors and a guy making programs such things could be figured out. Did the new tires I added have an effect… what about the new shocks?

These things will come, along with your fridge telling you when you're out of beer or milk or just ordering the stuff for you at the grocery store. And the cofeee maker programmed to have cofee ready 5 minutes after your alarm clock is set. And all that.

The fact is, the IT industry has been moving much faster than the rest, not only because so many smart people work at it but also because it does not require that much in terms of materials. The silicon in your chips is pretty cheap and if you open up the computer, there isn't that much in there. It all fits in a pretty small box. A car is much bigger, those sensors cost money, the interaction with sensors costs money... Not to mention that computer games and programs are basically just transfer of ideas from your brain into logical sequences. No material onvolved at all.

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We need to start an Avian consulting firm, where we could work on this sort of stuff for other companies, and advocate it.

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Even more importantly...

#1) Cars cost $10,000-$200,000. Computers cost $100-$5000. Easier to try incremental improvements...

#2) When a computer crashes, you waste 10 minutes of your life. When a car crashes... Cars are much more sensitive to failure, and therefore much easier to experiment on. Look at genetics - if 20% of mutations survive, you can grow billions of new species/abilities in a small time. If only 1% of mutations survive, it's going to take a bit longer.

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--The Hermit

Funny enough... that's kinda my job. Just much much slower and with many many many more idiots to deal with and convince.

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--The Hermit

I corrected this, then, sir.

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Did he just offend us or am I a little slow.

Now as many of you have mentioned is taht most of the new cars got sensors that can tell the conditions of the different parts.

All we have to do is to know how to calibrate it and make a program that can interpret the data into text files that can be showed on a screen to read.

Shouldn't be too difficult. Find a company who would sponsor the project, find a carcompany who will give the data and find someone smart enough to make the scripts for it.

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1st Feb 2008

To those that think a blue screen of death will kill you in a car.... ask your self this: What the hell do fighter jets and space shuttles do? Really do you think the targeting computer on the stealth bomber is the same computer that controls the ailerons on the flying wing? If the targeting computer goes down it does not effect the fly by wire systems that are actually flying the plane.

You can have computers that control and make the car work.... and you can have computers that have improved interface with the owner. I am talking about computers that aid the driver with data and programs. Do you seriously think any fighter jet pilots or astronauts fears computers in their vehicles? No they don’t because they know the thing has multiple layers and back up systems.

Leave the car as it is, with what ever computers it already had…. Just add me another one I can install programs like performance mods, and communication tools. If this new computer ever blue-screens then there is nothing to worry about, the original controlling computer is still alive and doing its thing.

To add to that, fighter jets don't run on Windows! They also have between 2 and 4 backup computer systems!

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Not intentionally, I just mean I have a lot more idiots to deal with and convince than most people have to deal with... though I'm sure many of you also have similar problems.

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--The Hermit

No...no. I'm one of the idiots.



errr..wait?!?!

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Not only that, but the hardware they use is specially made for what it's supposed to do, hence it has very low complexity and performance compared to a normal PC.

The old Apollo moonlanders had computers that couldn't keep up with calculators from the 1980's, still they managed to land on the moon and get back home without too many calls to Houston. You'd be surprised to know what simple hardware runs the current space shuttles, the main reason being reliability and simplicity.

Apart from navigation and multimedia systems, cars actually don't have very powerful computers either, there's simply no need for them to be as they only control a very limited amount of functions based on data from a few sensors. Engine control? Your mobile phone could handle that without breaking a sweat, same goes for ABS brakes, traction control, ESP and so on.

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"It's sort of a philosophical question...if a tissue fails to modify a skill that doesn't exist, and no one is around, will any devs hear you screaming?"

Danyale and I just bought a 2004 Dodge Durango. It was a repo at the credit union she works at; 26k miles, like new condition, for only $12k. It is a base model, lacks many of the bells and whistles, if I was buying new I would want much more... but we could not pass up the deal.

Dodge Durango... I have never seen so much wasted space. Poor design IMHO. The dash is as big as a garden bathtub, but my glove box cant even hold its own user manual without surgical placement. I really like the vehicle from a traveling standpoint, but from a designer standpoint I see lack of attention to detail and missed opportunity.


Anyway, now that I am riding Danyale’s Grand Prix, and excited to add on to the new Durango, I started thinking of this thread, and what my car of the future.

I want my car to sync MP3s with my home MP3 library. Wouldn’t it be cool if we started to see people putting WiFi access points in their garage to facilitate data transfer with your car? On ignition startup the car could sync with its designated folder, grabbing all new MP3s.

I also think that while my car is inside my garage it would be cool for my car to cash several webpages such as my local weather at the wetherchannel.com, or my local theater movie listings. This way when it looks like the sky is falling, I can have Danyale look up the weather. Or if I surprise her by taking her to dinner and a movie after work, she can look up when and what is playing.

I can do all of the above on my phone right now, and I do. But I think it would be nicer if my passengers had the option to access the same info when they are in my car.