Avian Gamers Network

I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were mere "bombings". If the Germans or the Japanese had atomic weapons back then, the world would be a much different place right now.

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Dealing with suicide bombers

Not sure I mentioned it above, but it's very almost certain that the bomber died with their bombs making it the first suicide bombings to ever occur in the UK.

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That's the crazy thing about facts.... point of view doesn't change them.




Quite right. The King James Version of the bible is a poor translation on various levels. (I hope I'm not offending anyone, here, but...) Most biblical scholars hold to the view that it is the original manuscripts which are to be considered the infallible and inerrant texts, not the translations or interpretations. Does this mean we all need to learn not only Hebrew, but Aramaic and Greek as well? Not at all, while I have found that my knowledge of Greek DOES help quite a bit with difficult passages in the New Testament, the newer translations a quite adequate for most uses, including authoritative teaching.

Given these things, we must continually update the translations every few decades on account of the way languages change and evolve over time.

Oh, and one other point - the KJV wasn't around during the 1400s. The Bible was still in Latin, and being witheld from the populace by the church at that time.

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

We had a mock trial of Truman as to whether the bombs were necessary a couple years ago at school and I was on the prosecution. It turns out the Japanese were about to surrender before the bombs, and it wasn't just in theory, the Emperor has already set the surrender in motion. It's actually a very interesting subject, one that I ended up doing a load of research on even after the assignment was over.

There's all sorts of theories that we only dropped it to let the Russians know we had it, etc. There's actually some merit to these debates, and it's very clear that the A-bomb droppings were not necessary. Obviously it showed our strength which was good, but it cost a lot of innocent lives.

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- Wiegraf Terrik
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Former Section 4 Director

"Please, if anyone were to play Obi-Wan it would be me, with the 'Luke, Luke save me' and the lightsabers going 'Vvvwiinnngg, vvwinggg, vvvWING!' -- Professor Frink

Forgove me for a second as I play devils advocate. Couldn't the terrorists be doing the same thing? If where are capable of throwing away innocent lives for a show of strength then in what why makes the WTC bombings any different?

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Moge

This is exactly why the WMD case against Iraq was so important. WMDs as a show of strength is generally considered a bad idea. The only reason that you got away with it in Japan was because no one was, at the time, capable of retaliation. Currently any "show of strength" would have an immediate response and the consequences would be catastrophic.

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It is easy to see in hindsight that they were preparing to surrender. Aerial reconnasance and intercepts all pointed to the Japanese preparing to defend the home island. This had to terrify Truman after seeing the losses just to take some of the small outer islands. We had 8 thousand dead taking Iwo and over 30,000 Japanese killed. The Japanese never surrendered in any of those actions.

Except for the shocking quickness of it I am not sure why everyone thinks a single nuclear bomb is so much worse than firebombs. 80 to 100 thousand were killed in a single night of firebombing Tokyo. The only argument for any of it is that in an all out war the people who produce the ammunition, guns, tanks and planes, even the food for the troops, are fair game.

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"Chatfield, I think there's something wrong with our bloody ships." Admiral David Beatty, upon watching the battlecruiser Queen Mary explode at the battle of Jutland.

My name is Tobias Smith and I approved this post.

I totally agree with you. Hiroshima was neccessary.

But Nagasaki? "We had to prove that we had more where that came from" doesn't sound like a very good reason to me.

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Retired Weaponsmith

That's why I argued that the a-bombs weren't necessary in the trial. It was a long time ago since I studied the case, but I'm positive that there was abundant information at the time for the Truman administration to see that Japan was off its last leg and was preparing to surrender. I'll find something factual soon, but it was 4 years ago, so my memory isn't that great.

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- Wiegraf Terrik
SWG: Human Commando/Pistoleer
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EQII: Alazin, High Elf Wizard

Former Section 4 Director

"Please, if anyone were to play Obi-Wan it would be me, with the 'Luke, Luke save me' and the lightsabers going 'Vvvwiinnngg, vvwinggg, vvvWING!' -- Professor Frink

We should probably continue this elsewhere, since I originally just came to this thread to show support to our Brits. I want to get back there and visit. My next planned trip was going to be Scotland but I may have to get down to England as well.

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"Chatfield, I think there's something wrong with our bloody ships." Admiral David Beatty, upon watching the battlecruiser Queen Mary explode at the battle of Jutland.

My name is Tobias Smith and I approved this post.

I'm inclined to agree, this is quite largely off topic now! I'm sure that Talon has brought up threads on most of the various topics discussed here over at the Moonworld Forums so any who want to discuss further, I suggest you head over there.

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Anyone want to bring up again having a Politics Forum?

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--The Hermit

As you know, I'm all for it. I see know reason why we can't at least have a trial run for it.

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

4 more bombs went off today. 3 in the underground and 1 on a bus. I guess some of them didnt work and the ones that did where much smaller explosions.

Just curious, is there an election coming up in London? Also, has there been/should there be any political backlash from these bombings?
Lastly, have any of these been linked to the middle east?

sorry Im without TV or Radio and my Newspapers have yet to find me at my new address.

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Moge

The four bombs yesterday were only detenator explosions, the explosives packed with them didn't go off so, in fact, no one was killed (I think there might have been one injury but nothing major). The police now have a lot of evidence which they can use to help with the hunt.

I'm not aware of there being any elections in London now until next year. Mayor Livingston is so anti-war and yet peacefully defiant that it is more likely to strengthen his political position (which is currently very strong anyway).

There is a possiblity of political backlash against Tony Blair, especially if public opinion decides to link these bombings as a result of the war in Iraq. The PM took us to war despite strong public opinion against it and as such has generally been considered a bad move politically for him. To avoid possible offence, I'm not going to go into the details here.

The first lot of bombers, I believe have been linked to Al-Qaeda (or at least a sub-sect of it). The police are currently running forensic tests on the explosives from the bombs recovered yesterday to determine if both sets of bombs came from the same place.

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