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Space Elevator
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Author:  Talon1977 [ Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Space Elevator
This is an interesting concept. I heard about it some time ago, but I wasn't aware they'd even made THIS much progress.

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_elevator_020327-1.html
Author:  Locke_Trinmin [ Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:50 pm ]
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Yeah, I read about that in my popular science magazine a couple months ago in an issue...you should really subscribe to the popular science magazine, or visit popularscience.com on a weekly basis if you love science like I do.

Theres a fabric that scientists called super silk. It's made from spider silk and some other materials, and I think it is stronger than steel. I was watching the science channel on my direct tv a couple of weeks ago and they had a special about it. A couple feet of rope or whatever it was, was used to lift 5-6 cars. I forgot how much it weighed, but it was pretty amazing. The particular show was going through all the super hero, and x-men powers, and explaining or telling you what kind of technology we have today, to do the super power type things that the super heroes can do.
Author:  Cordalis [ Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:48 pm ]
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hmm, very interesting article...

so, let's all donate $5 to the cause, if everyone did so...he might just have the funding...and I could ride into space! But yes, the idea does sound feasable after reading through the article...it's so cool when you can take the Science out of Scicene Fiction with Science.... :lol:
Author:  Cyrus Rex [ Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:02 pm ]
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I read the book "Red Mars", in it they used a Space Elevator to traffic stuff from Mars.
Author:  matija [ Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's based on carbon nanotubes, which are all the rage these days, sort of like their close cousins, fullerenes in the 80s.

I think the guy saying he could do it for 5 billion is full of BS, though. As far as I know the carbon nanotubes themselves are probably not longer than a couple of micrometers and connecting them infallably introduces a weak point. Sure, the tubes themselves are strong as diamond, but how does that help you if they are so short?

They do strenhten the composites they are introduced into.

My guess is the space elevator will be feasible in 30-40 years, not 12.
Author:  Talon1977 [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:55 am ]
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meh.. always the pessimist, aren't you? :P

You raise a good question about linking the carbon nanotubes though. Any thoughts from anybody on this? Can they be fused together with heat?
Author:  Dragon Fire [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Talon1977 wrote:
meh.. always the pessimist, aren't you? :P

You raise a good question about linking the carbon nanotubes though. Any thoughts from anybody on this? Can they be fused together with heat?


if they were fused together with heat you still creat a week point...

I did a paper on this like freshman year of highschool... interesting to see how its evolved
Author:  Talon1977 [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
if they were fused together with heat you still creat a week point...

I did a paper on this like freshman year of highschool... interesting to see how its evolved


So how would they put them together then?
Author:  Dragon Fire [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The answer is carbon-nanotube-composite ribbon. Small fibers of the material are set down side-by-side, then interconnected to form a growing ribbon.


they magically interconnect... :roll:
Author:  Onto Kracken [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:06 pm ]
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Yeah Cyrus, well let's hope our space elevator doesn't end up like the one on Mars.
Author:  Talon1977 [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well.. sounds like they might weave them then. Weird.
Author:  Locke_Trinmin [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:00 pm ]
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You'd be surprised how technologically advanced the U.S. is, you just don't hear about it all, because alot of the really cool stuff we possess is hidden from the public eye. Believe what you want, but if we really wanted to do the space elevator we could do it easily, but of course things always take forever because of bureaucratic bullshit, and if we don't get the money needed well then I gues it's a lost cause heh.
Author:  Talon1977 [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Apparently, from what I read, the money we would save in payload-lift costs would pay for the project hundreds of times over. The shuttle program is impractically expensive to haul hardware and whatnot into space, but our ego doesn't allow us to stop now. :P
Author:  matija [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Locke, I work in polymer science and engineering in the US. Nanotubes are down the hall. I have some idea about what I am talking about.

The thing is, they interviewed a scientist, not an engineer. And although a scientist myself, I have to admit that sometimes scientists underestimate the complications of scale-up, economic and physical feasibility. When the engineers at DuPont or some other company are saying the same thing, I will beleive it.

I have read some papers on surface modification of carbon nanotubes, I suppose they could be linked up that way using covalent bonds. But those bonds will not be nearly as strong as the carbon carbon bonds of the nanotube itself.
Author:  X2-PB [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:24 pm ]
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useless trivia:

I believe the idea of a space elevator was coined by Arthur C. Clarke (or was it Issac Azimov?) and was put to very good use in his fourth book in the Space Odessy series, 3001 (which was released in 2001 and finished off the series very well, well worth reading).

Incidentally, Arthur C. Clarke also both predicted and then invented the concept of a geostationary satilite orbit.
Author:  matija [ Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
The concept of a geostationary orbit was introduced in a book in 1920s by Hermann Potocnik - Noordung, way before the world was ripe for such an idea. Arthur C. Clarke did come to the same idea in the 1940s and helped popularize and accept it. It was a matter of timing.

http://www.flight100.org/history/aus.html#2

I have downloaded two scientific articles, one on space elevator and one on carbon nanotubes. If I am reading them correctly, I don't think the space elevator will be feasible too soon. I would love to be wrong.

Acta Astronautica
Volume 47, Issue 10 , November 2000, Pages 735-744

Precision Engineering
Volume 28, Issue 1 , January 2004, Pages 16-30

If your university has a subscription to these journals, you can read the stuff yourself. Very intersting indeed. I was considering linking the articles here, but that would be copyright infringement.

The problem is the quantities needed. Diamond is also a very tough, superb material known for ages, but synthetically pieces larger than a carat are not made. Saying that a space elevator made of carbon nanotubes is possible is the same as saying a diamond car is possible.
Author:  Talon1977 [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:00 am ]
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Hmm.. a diamond car... now THERE's an idea. I wonder how marketable that would be. "Toys for the Super-rich." Let me make some calls to Hollywood. :P
Author:  matija [ Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Your local gangsta rapper would have one, fo shizzle.
Author:  Locke_Trinmin [ Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:30 am ]
Post subject: 
matija wrote:
Your local gangsta rapper would have one, fo shizzle.


lol
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