Avian Gamers Network

that we've never discussed this kind of stuff here before, and I'm not sure why. I chat about it on other forums with other Star Wars fans, and I mentioned it in-game today (yesterday) and freaked out a couple of people, and a couple more were clueless.

These are the changes that are occuring in the upcoming DVD release of the original Star Wars Trilogy:SE (it feels almost ludicrous typing that, and it will only get worse, I'm afraid. Also, you can take these as pretty much gospel.)




These are the pics of the new DVDs. As you can see, cool new artwork for the cases that match the Prequel DVDs, with original poster and concept artwork for the discs themselves.









This is the new Han vs. Greedo Work In Progress that in my opinion looks even worse than the SE changes.
http://koti.mbnet.fi/dukeirot/ep3/HanSo ... do2004.wmv

Here is the Emperor in ESB change:


This is the worst change of all in my opinion, replacing Shaw with Hayden at the end of RotJ. It is almost as bad as the original replacement of Greedo shooting first.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

point blank, bottom line, end of story. I will never own these DVDs.

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Moge

I will. I really want some high quality versions of the film. I'm currently trying to acquire some bootlegs of the originals, pre-SE, in wide screen format ripped off of LaserDisc, though. If I'm able to get any, I'll share.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

Do you have an actual officical statement on these changes?

I have seen this before, and it is a mix of actual info and fan speculation, the last pic I think is a fan production, while the box covers are real from the soon-to-be-released DVDs.

I think I'll wait until they are actually released until I make up my mind

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Meriander, Paladin
Rentin, Warlock
(Emerald Dawn, WoW EU server)

Well... This certainly confirms one thing. Lucas really WAS abducted by space aliens (or communists, one or the other). Whatever was left here with us is an imposter, and this man must be stopped. I've had my suspicions ever since that first obnoxious glimpse of the insatiable Jar-jar Binx. Now it's a definate. There's no other explanation for the sudden loss of a brilliant man's entire capacity for creative thought and utter destruction of a timeless work of art. Not just once, but on multiple occassions, the Holy Grail of not just Science Fiction, but of Entertainment itself, has been mutilated by this madman, and it MUST end or we will all turn into mindless Friends-watching zombies. This is an outrage!

sorry.. got carried away.

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

They aren't going to give out an official statement for a while yet, if at all. And I really hope you're right about no changes, but I don't think it is the case. These are very, very, very reliable sources. That original list that was circulated all those months ago with a lot of ridiculous stuff was obviously elaborated on by fans, but by no means based in false-hood. There will be further changes in the editions to come, after epidsode 3 is released.

Hell, even Episodes I and II were different on DVD than from their theatrical versions, with a deleted scene and editing changes.

I don't like any of these changes. I hate some of them. It is certainly Mr. Lucas' perogative to make the changes, as they are his films, and I really can't believe that the stuff released in the late '70s and early '80s were what he imagined in his head, but with the level of technology, that was the best he could do. I really hate it now, however, that he is slightly messing with the plot of these movies too, altering Anakin appearing to Luke. Supposedly its going to be explained in Episode 3 how the Force Ghosting works, and at that point we'll realize (from a certain point of view) that Obi-Wan really was right, and that Anakin died when he became Darth Vader, and that's why we see him younger than Yoda or Obi-Wan. But damn it, he should have thought of that earlier. Not after he is writing the script to Episode 3.

Like I said, I'll still get these DVDs, and I'll get whatever new editions eventually come out, because I want to see the changes, and I'm a collector. But I really, really want a complete set of the original originals too, in the highest quality possible. They are definitely a collector's item, and are worth something for being the originals that started it all.

It is painful for me to watch Greedo shooting first, it really is. It is the change that bothers me most about these movies. But at the end of the day, when all is said and done, they are still Star Wars movies, and I still like them. I don't as much as I did, but that may just be because I grew up with the others, and they are nostalgic for me. I want the option of watching whatever version I want when I want it. And from there I'd probably create my own version from the others, using some scenes from the original, and some from the new stuff. If I ever learn to use some good editing software.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

I think, for a lot of us, it is too late.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

*cough*ROM*cough*

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

Hayden is too young looking..shaw was perfect...plus it makes no sense because the dying man in Lukes arm looks like onething while this guy looks like another..For someone seeing it for the first time they will be hopelessly confused

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Ryric Krael
Former Vice President AGN
Former Director, Section 6
Former Head of Department of the Treasury
-------
Ask not what your PA can do for you, but what you can do for your PA
"Gone Section Five"

I've heard, DF (and I keep praying it is a false rumor) that scenes were filmed of Hayden old and messed up in a vader costume that they could then put back into those scenes. I think the likelihood of that happening is pretty small, though. Esepcially since it isn't listed in the above list of "pretty much gospel" but it could always be added in some future edition.

Besides, GL doesn't really care about first-time watchers. He isn't keeping anything a surprise for Eps. 4-6 if you watch them in numerical order and not release date order (ie, originals first). We never found out Vader was Anakin until late in Jedi, when Obi-Wan appeared to Luke again. That was when the "certain point of view" talk came about. Now, that revelation is largely meaningless except from a character point of view, since it doesn't appear it is going to be anything secretive in the new movies of Anakin turning to Vader.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

Edited, because I can't say whats on my mind....though everyone else can. It's such a crime to use profanity these days....though if you go to some places in New York City, profanity is a level of expression...and by the way several Avian members use profanity here, and don't get bitched at.

I'm out.

Thanks for the concern.

later.

Locke, while I appreciate your candor, there are some on these boards who may not. You might want to rephrase that when you calm down a bit. I know a couple people here who will most certainly take offense at those comments. Just thought I'd be the first to warn ya.

:EDIT:

ROFL.. the changes aren't much better.

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

These things do not get me worked up.

I honestly think GL is not the visionary he once was. EpI was horrible, Maul and the Pod race are the only parts I can watch. EpII was much better, but I think that is because others are keeping GL from going PowerRanger on us.

Along with the idea of GL loosing it, putting young Haden in place of old Anacin is a bad idea… the only was I could accept it is if they splice Haden in when Darth Vader’s Mask is removed.

In the SE I liked the changes that cleaned up the picture and improved the scenery. Special effects and improved visuals are welcomed by me. I also welcome improving sense…. only if they make things better.

I never liked the new Greedo scene nor the Han and Jabba scene. It is not the fact that they are no the originals, it is the fact that they do not look good. Even my wife thinks they look bad, and when I tell her they were added as an improvement she cant believe it.

Overall I watch the SE more than I watch my original versions. I guess I like the better picture.

My friend has the trilogy in the original special edition on dvd. three dvds. They are excellent quality even though he bought them in the street in bangkok.

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*Teras Kasi Watcher
*Pistoleer
*Scout
*Medic

Can your friend share the wealth?

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

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Nuff said....peace i'm out...

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The Cord
Occasional Caretaker of the Horde Maelstrom Guild
Ex-Section 3 Director

I'll believe it when I see it.
That AICN stamp makes me very doubtful of it authenticity.

Sure, Harry and AICN is generally not the most reliable source on the 'net for stuff like this, but it has been backed up by a lot of other independant spys. Now, they could all be fakes, but I've read some things from people who've been remarkably accurate and trustworthy in the past who say they've seen still from the DVD version that were at resolutions of 1500x850 or so and above, stuff that could only be taken from the original source with the original elements, and it wasn't upsampled or anything. The pic I've posted could easily be a quick photoshop, but these folks are saying is isn't.

They could be wrong, lied to, or lying themselves, but I personally don't think so. I guess we'll all find out in a couple months.

TheForce.Net did post the picture after AICN broke it, saying it was a fake, but that was later taken down and is no longer on the site. There's been some other stuff from there that leads me to believe that they didn't really want to believe it, but now have reason to believe that it is not a fake.

Again, take it at your own risk, with a large grain of salt. I know for me it won't stop me from purchasing these DVDs anyway, although I'll be hugely relieved if the Hayden thing turns out to be bogus.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

What Corlan said...

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Flyoc,
Farm with attitude.

I have now acquired a bootleg widescreen Pre-Special Edition LaserDisc rip of ANH. I'm burning it right now to test quality and give it a veiwing on my TV. I've also got ESB and RotJ coming soon. If it works out great, I can try to work out a way to get them into people's hands, especially if the original originals are never going to be released on DVD. PM me for more details.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

OK, the first DVD is a complete test, and let me tell you, I'm impressed. These DVDs are anamorphic, complete with menus, commentary, and even a bonus disc with trailers and stuff. (I've not yet been able to acquire the 4th disc).

The video quality on these is really quite good. It is much better than any VHS tape someone might have, although it is certainly not DVD quality either. The quality seems to be nearly perfectly between the two mediums, though. As I said, the discs are anamorphic, meaning they play nicely on 16:9 TVs. The contrast isn't what I'd hoped it to be everywhere, but as I said, still far and away better than any other version of the originals I've yet witnessed. There is some minor artifacting from the compression that I noticed, but it is minor, and only in some scenes.

They are presented in Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround sound. Apparently it actually has four different audio tracks compressed to two, so Dolby Pro Logic works perfectly with it.

These discs were captured from The Definitive Edition LaserDiscs, and the menus and such take inspiration from them. All in all, it is a very nicely done set of discs. Again, PM me for further details.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

I forgot to mention specifics on the commentary. It is a commentary from the LDs by Ralph McQuarrie (the original SW concept artist), Dennis Muren (head of special effects, big guy in ILM), and Ken Ralston, who's significance escapes me at this time. I have not listened to the commentary yet either. I have all of today off from work, though, so expect me to get a bunch done with these things.

It looks like Frank Oz is also listed on the commentary for ESB, too. Come on, download faster!

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

OK, more info. The commentaries are not "real" commentaries, but pieces of interviews put in over the film soundtrack at places where they are showing stuff that they are talking about. They are very intermittent and infrequent, but still kinda cool. The commentaries are from other sources and not designed for commentary. At least, so it seems to me.

These rips are from the 1993 LaserDisc release "The Star Wars Trilogy: The Difinitive Collection."

RotJ has the lowest quality video of the three, because it is longer and still has to fit in the same amount of space. The quality is slightly less than the first two, but not very noticeably less. If you're watching it on a 57" widescreen TV, you'll notice it. If you are watching on a standard 4:3 TV, you probably won't.

When watching on a 4:3 TV, they look amazing. Still not DVD quality, but oh so close. When watching on a huge 16:9 TV, you'll notice all the imperfections, but it is still so much better than a VHS copy. And after you've watched for 10 minutes, you kinda get used to the softer picture quality.


One thing is certain: After watching these originals over again, I really can't help but have my appreciation for the Special Editions (primarily ANH) go way up. I'd forgotten how dated some of the effects look in that one. ROTJ is hardly noticeable, and indeed they didn't do too much to that movie for the SEs, but with ANH it really helps out. I kinda love seeing the original sets for ESB again, but was kinda surprised at how much outside it already did show. The additions to the SE don't seem like such a drastic change as they once did.

I think my favorite part of watching these original versions, though, is the Yub-Yub song at the end of Jedi. I like the new song in the SE, but the original is still the best, and I have the most emotional experience watching the original ending. It seems much better somehow. Probably because it was ingrained in me since I was very little.

Seeing the Han shoots first scene again was another plus. It just seems so much more natural.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

Also, here are some more confirmed (yet very minor) changes to the DVDs coming this fall. These screenshots were grabbed from the new French trailer.

http://www.bootfit.co.uk/media/leia1.jpg

In the originals, there was just a bright light at the end of the hallway after about the 7th bulkhead or so. They extended the hallway further down to give a bigger feel things, I suppose.

http://www.bootfit.co.uk/media/obivader.jpg




It looks like the lightsabers from ANH have also been touched up and redone a bit. Both of these shots are also from the French DVD trailer. According to sources, Kenobi's saber is now rotoscoped all the way through the fight with Vader, and Vader's saber is now red the entire way through as well. There aren't the jagged edges and black lines to the sabers in the film either, and the jerks between frame movement of turning the sabers on and off has supposedly also been corrected.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

For those of you who still have doubts about these changes comes more confirmation from the official site:

http://www.starwars.com/collecting/news ... 40714.html

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

More than half the posts in this thread are from me. Is that kinda sad, or what?

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

basically.

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

That's it, Mr. Talon. No DVDs for you.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

Ugh. So there was a rumor quite a long time ago that in the new SW:OT DVDs there would be shots of the AT-AT walkers being deployed on Hoth by drop ships similar to the ones in AOTC. Not much has ever been said about this rumor, and I still don't believe that it will be in these versions of the DVDs, but there is some more evidence that this may be the case.



This is from a new book basically focusing on vehicles from the movies that is coming out soon. It is a pic from the official website.

I've not heard any credible spy report or anything that this is going to be in the new DVDs. But it is interesting.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

This is just another way of trying to get a few more bucks from those who really like the SWG collection, and this is a sad way to do it
No futher coment...

Shadow's

For all you non-believers (including you, oh wise and all powerful Obo) here is a clip of a DVD rip showing Anankin in place of Sebastian Shaw at the end of ROTJ.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/dukeirot/ep3/dvd-t ... tensen.avi

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

And a screencap of digital cleanup that has again gone on here. This is a screencap comparison of DivX rips, but even so, the new one looks gorgeous.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

i saw a screencap of the new LS on the death star..lets just say i pray they were faked cause it looks like something I could photoshop together in 2minutes

_________________
Ryric Krael
Former Vice President AGN
Former Director, Section 6
Former Head of Department of the Treasury
-------
Ask not what your PA can do for you, but what you can do for your PA
"Gone Section Five"

You're talking about Vader's lightsaber? Yes, there is much discussion and debate about that. I'm not sure yet. I hope that it is just a work-in-progress thing that got leaked, and not the final, 'cause it does look like ass.

Of course, its hard to say how much artifacting and compression went into the screens we've seen, and how that will affect stuff. Was it the finished DVD that he ripped from, what software/codecs did the guy use to compress and encode again, the compression added into the screenshots, etc. It'll almost certainly look better on your TV screen. At least, I'm hoping so.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

The more I look at new spoiler stuff today, the more I'm sure these leaks are still works-in-progress. Anakin's body kinda jumps in that clip with Hayden's head, and I think it is because the video for him is going too fast, and they just kinda knocked the stuff together to see how it'd look overall. The lightsabers look terrible, and change colors a lot. There are three different colors for Vader's saber in just one shot. I'm assuming that this may be part of the clean-up and capture for the DVDs that they are using, and that again all this will be touched up by ILM after that takes place too. We'll just have to wait and see. But I am extremely exited for these DVDs now.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

Yes, we shall see.

They could be putting out fake leaks on purpose just to mislead peoples.

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X2-PB

Pathfinder Kingmaker Campaign:
Gednan Malithanar - Wizard (1)
Dukin Thunderstrike - Ranger (1)

Star Citizen: - https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/
AntanKarmola on their forums

Star Wars: The Old Republic: - Not really playing
Antare Karmola - Jedi Guardian (32)
Antan Karmola - Jedi Shadow (21)
Arianae Karmola - Gunslinger (20)

That doesn't seem very likely, X2. Most people who have a product to market don't want to piss off their customer base.

It is a much more likely conspiracy theory (which I don't beleive either) that they are allowing the leaks so people get used to them, and aren't shocked when they see the changes and want their money back.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

Hey kids... this is ILM we are talking about...

They INVENTED special effects and digital editing...

If you think they are going to release a product with shitty graphics and bad special effects, you are either stupid or naive....

Now, the story may suck, and judgement calls might be suspect, but the visuals will be spot on.

Now. let's let this dead horse lie...

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!