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Of whom has been watching, whatcha all think? I thought John Edwards' speech went pretty well tonight.

(Remember, if you involve yourselves in a political conversation, please keep it clean, and be nice)

Obama...he was pretty good..Ronald was pretty decent also..didn't watch much of it

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Ryric Krael
Former Vice President AGN
Former Director, Section 6
Former Head of Department of the Treasury
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Ask not what your PA can do for you, but what you can do for your PA
"Gone Section Five"

Personally, I'm getting really tired of listening to the Democrats spend all of their energy bashing Bush, and not saying anything about what they want to do to improve things. Makes them look like petty, whiny children.

Yeah, I may support Bush, but even if I didn't, I would be a little more respectful of the man who held the office of President.

I used to have more repect for Democrats. There were a lot of great ones, like Kennedy, FDR, etc. It just seems that the Democratic Party has changed a lot in recent years, and not for the better.

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Obama is THE future of the Democratic party...

He will be a presidential canidate in 2012.... MAYBE '08....

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SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

Yeah, Obama's going to be a bright star for the Dems...I don't care that he's black...I DO care that he's a moderate democrat - or at least painted himself that way during his speech - hopefully in the vein of the Blue Dogs like Breaux. In 4 years I'll probably have an anything but Hillary mindset...if she's on the Dem ticket in the next 10 years I may move to Canada or England like all the retard celebrities did or said they would do if Bush got elected.

I'm a Republican and will vote that way this election, but I do think that Cheney has moved Bush too far to the right. I support the troops in Iraq and think we were absolutely right to go into Afghanistan...but the empty hands syndrome (no WMD, no al Qeada link, etc) of this administration in Iraq is a bit troubling.

We have to stick it out, get NATO and the UN in there to help defray the costs and share the burden.

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They were smart to limit the Bush Bashing. So far I am impressed.... When people focus less on hating, they sound much more likable.

For the sake of our country, both sides need to stop the hating and get to issues. The Dems are really lacking in the issues part.... really lacking... The problem is that many months back, when Dean was making huge headway on hate, everyone saw that hate was the way to get most of the Dem base on your side.

Now that is over and the Dems have chosen a candidate. Now they really need stand for something. I hate the kind of politics that takes a poll and decides what to do... then takes a poll next month and changes direction. There was a day when men stood for something despite popularity.

I still think the Dems are lacking anything tangible. This week has been great talk, and was impressive, but they never seem to get around to details.

So far I think the Dems have not done themselves any favors with the Convention.

Having Carter speak about foreign policy during prime-time was a huge mistake. Putting on Senator Kennedy for a prime-time speech was also a large gaffe. He's partison, divisive, and didn't say anything really good about his long time friend Kerry.

Reagan was a joke. More partisan drivel. He was a gimmick.

Clinton did really well. His speech was entirely too leftist and confrontational, but the man just flat out knows how to give an inspired speech, and can make even the most one-sided speech seem reasonable and moderate. He basically gave the VP speech, though. It was important that he speak on day one, and not upstage Kerry like he did at the fundraiser a few months ago.

As far as Clinton preaching to the choir, I think he did a little. I missed most of the speech, so I can't comment on specifics, but he's the kind of guy that can make even the most liberal policies seem very moderate and uninflamatory. I think it was important to get him out there early, build up support of the base and remind the undecideds that they liked him a lot for the 8 years he was in office. He then I think needed to convey that more of the same policy style would be in store with a Kerry presidency, and then let Kerry come in and seem more moderate and kick the campaign into high gear come the end of the convention.

Edwards basically gave the Nominee acceptance speech, so I'm not to sure what Kerry is going to do tonight.

Obama is the future of the Democratic party, no doubt about it.


All in all, I don't think this convention is really helping the Dems out too much. It is raising some support from their base, getting them excited, but that is about it. It is too early in the process for most of the undecideds to be paying attention to it, and that is probably a good thing for them. So far the Convention hasn't been helping their cause much. Edwards gave a good speech (he had a cold, and had to keep clearing his throat and really wanted some water) but it was the wrong speech. He gave the non-partisan hope in the future speech that Kerry should have given tonight.

I personally don't think the Dems have organized this convention all that well. They are trying to shift the focus from an anti-Bush Party to something else, and I don't know that they are being that successful.

It remains to be seen if the Republicans do any better in a couple months.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

/mourns the loss of that day

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Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.

Well I only got to glance at the screen last night, but I did hear:

-Roll back tax cuts for top 2%
-KEEP tax cuts inplace for other 98% of US

-Used that money to help children (2%'s money)
-Hire more teachers
-Improve the public school system all around
-Want to have national after school programs

-Reform welfare

-Do away with tax breaks going to companies exporting jobs
-Give tax breaks to companies working hard to keep jobs here in the US

These two I couldn't quite hear but the crowd was very happy about them, they were quite happy about most of the proposed items.
-Up to $4,000 "something" for college (can't remember if it was a tax break or... something else)
-Up to $1,000 for families... "to or for something"

<<ok I checked- 4k Tax break on tuition and 1k break to help lower premiums>>


Those were only a few, there were quite a few more laid out but I didn't hear everything clearly.

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I forgot to mention that having Al Sharpton (while a man I do respect while vehemntly disagreeing with) speak during prime time was also a horrible idea.

Quite honestly, the Dems have not done a good job so far outlining what they stand for and who they are, and why anyone should vote for them because of that. The base is energized, and they'll all vote for Kerry. But no one has yet won a general Presidential election by running on a "vote against the other guy" campaign. They are trying hard to change that perception, but they have not succeeded yet. Kerry should be way, way ahead in the polls right now, with all media coverage and spot lights on him, and he isn't. That is a huge, huge problem for him. I honestly don't think he's going to win come this November, unless he makes a drastic turnaround.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

That'l be nice to have a black president some day.

The convention isn't over. Kerry speaks tonight so I'm giving him the benifit of the doubt until I hear what he has to say.

Also conventions are usually directed towards the base and their friends anyway right? Don't expect the poll numbers to surge or dropped by a large number right after it is over. It isn't really meant to do that, though the Republicians will say if the polls stay about where they are, that the democrates have "failed" (if you think about it that is kinda smart policitally to do that).

I don't think it is so bad that things are so close right now. Did Dean have large numbers in the polls? If so then maybe being ahead with a large lead early isn't the way they want to go this time (no crazy rants either!), just keep it nice and steady. Still a long way until November.

It is a good chance for the Democrates (and the Republicains fairly soon) to fire up their base and highlight some of the things they want to get done which they will speak more on as the election year moves on.

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Warnel Redd TC: Toad
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I would never, let me repeat, NEVER even consider voting for John Kerry. In fact, I dread the thought of him being our President, because I would fear for my country's safety if he did.

Easily researched on the Internet, his record shows a very scary pattern. He has voted against military equipment such as the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the F-16, the Patriot missile, and LOTS of other important pieces of military hardware that we use in the field every single day. Not only that, but he voted against spending money to help supply our troops over in Iraq and Afghanistan. That alone infuriates me to no end. U.S. Soldiers are dying over there with the best equipment we have as it is. Did he want our soldiers to die even more because he doesn't want to spend the money to keep them supplied?

I don't consider myself a Democrat or a Republican. I'd vote for a Democrat if I thought the person was the right guy for the job. All I know is, Kerry is absolutely not that guy.

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Thought this thread was about the convention(?).

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Warnel Redd TC: Toad
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Hmm... you're right. Oops.

The convention sucked, too. There! Now I'm on topic.

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I've been watching some of it. Edwards speech was alright, but he can do better. I caught the last bit of Sharptons and I thought it was excellent.

There really hasn't been very much Bush bashing from what I've seen like some of you guys have said. At least not compared to the Kerry bashing from the other side. You really can't single out anyone for bashing the other candidate when everyone does it. I like politics, but I don't like politicians. I just can't trust one fully. For me, its vote for the lesser of two evils.

Oh, and I heard Obama's speech was great, but didn't get to see it. So, I printed out a copy of it and will probably read it this weekend once I get some free time.

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Romsuiag (Brad)
Former and Third President of Avian

Sharpton's speech:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/ ... index.html

vid- (think link will work, might have to cut and paste)

javascript:LaunchVideo('/politics/2004/07/28/sot.rev.sharpton.av04.cnn.','300k');


Edwards speech:
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/spee ... _0728.html

vid of the speech:
http://mfile.akamai.com/12294/asf/dncc. ... ds_100.asx

I'll looks for more of the ones being discussed here later.

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Warnel Redd TC: Toad
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Iain's post got me thinking...

Perhaps 500 years from now, the earth will be like it is in Star Trek; no sickness, disease, no poverty, no discrimination, no killing, no wars, all peace...like a Utopia.

The space program is one of many first steps in uniting the world...some day we may even form the United Federation of Planets like in Star Trek...we have many countries that will soon be space born...currently we have the U.S., China, India, Russia, Japan, and I forget who else...I think the space program will help us achieve a world peace..hopefully.

(India and Japan have planned missions to the moon, and Japan has plans for a space station, but I forget the dates that it'l be happening.

.....Syria and Iran are on the list of next countries to invade...can't wait for that to happen yay...(even though we have been sending troops into Syria and Iran allready, it's just not publisized greatly)

War war war war....I get tired of it all....I think it's time for some peace....but the sad part of it all is that 10-20 years from now were probably going to be in another big war....I hope by 2100 that shit stops....I'd rather have the earth be at war with some alien species, than for us to be at war with ourselves. Perhaps if aliens come down and try to invade us, we'll finally unite as a species, and realize that all this fighting is pretty stupid.

p.s. Yeah, so what...I gues I'm a dreamer...and can't wait for the day when we have World Peace...and the day a friendly alien spacecraft came down to Earth to visit, I would jump aboard.

John Kerrys speech was great; it made me feel more patriotic, and more appreciative of the United States; I enjoyed it.

I'm neither Democrat or Republican, I'll vote for who I think can do the job.

I thought Obama was amazing, it'll be nice to have an Illinios president in 2012.

In all I think the convention was great. And no amount of bashing is enough on this administration. I mean, the 9/11 comission flat out said, "we were wrong." This should be the scoop of the last half century, but no one seems to care. We should not have gone to war, and the Dems are doing a good job of pointing it out. Just because Kerry didn't vote to spend billions upon billions on military strength and instead plans on spending it on bettering our country in more productive ways doesn't mean we will be unable to defend ourselves with him as president. Bush has done more to make the world hate us and threaten this nation's security more than Kerry could ever attempt to do.

We should probably close this thread, I remember what happened last time we got into this (Dumin was involved).

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- Wiegraf Terrik
SWG: Human Commando/Pistoleer
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Former Section 4 Director

"Please, if anyone were to play Obi-Wan it would be me, with the 'Luke, Luke save me' and the lightsabers going 'Vvvwiinnngg, vvwinggg, vvvWING!' -- Professor Frink

Yeah, I'm sorry....I just really wanted to talk about this topic, but had nobody to talk to about it....but I figured since were all a close knit group of people it wouldn't be a problem.

We all have our opinions, and were all entitled to them, theres nothing wrong with that. It's all good.

All I will say is this, READ the report before commenting on it...

Other than that, watch the tone in here, it has been good so far, but if this goes the way it might, I will have to ask that it be shut down by the mods at once...

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

Manti is right. You've obviously not read the report at all.






That is just about the gayest thing ever done at a convention. It makes me wonder just why exactly he took the water taxi into the convention yesterday.

I can just imagine:




It is kinda strange. He wants to be remembered as the Vietnam hero (even though the people he served with say he re-enacted stuff for his home movies to look like the hero for his future political campaigns, and even got two purple hearts for self-inflicted wounds... http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc82.htm) and he wants us to believe that somehow now he'd do things smarter and better than Bush, but won't say how.

And then he expects us to ignore 35 years of history of his public life where he voted against every major weapon system the U.S. has used/funded/designed, voted against the first Gulf War that everyone in the world backed, and voted for funding the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq before then voting to kill the entire bill and all the funding.

Yeah, he's a real hero.

The man can flat out not be trusted with the country, the military, or the lives of any U.S. citizen. And if the past is important, then all the past is important. You can't ignore 35 solid years of public life where John Kerry has done exactly the opposite of what he says he wants in his campaign.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

See... post like that get threads locked because they either offend someone or someone else will come back and do say something else that does.

I guess it wasn't smart to try having discussions related to this stuff again because in the end it goes back to the same things.

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Warnel Redd TC: Toad
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This is getting out of line.

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Retired Weaponsmith

They ALWAYS turn into bad things...

ALWAYS...

If there is ONE thing I have learned from 3 or 4 message boards I post on, its this... NEVER talk politics with people you want to remain friends with.

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

It started OK with the general comments and actual opinions and arguments. Then someone chimed in with "It sucked." - no comment.

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Retired Weaponsmith

Sorry guys, I am locking this. I knew politics were banned here, but I wanted to try and see if things would be different.

Lets not fight each other, let’s not let our opinions of Bush & Kerry damage our opinions of each other.

I was letting this go but was keeping an eye on it.

We don’t have moderators here because we don’t need them... except with these types of topics. Everyone has their point of view and they are not going to change them here. The disagreements in between are only going to end up as arguments that lead to no where and help no one.

We don’t want mods slapping people down. If we need mods, then Avian has failed, so lets just keep these topics where they were.

Leave the politics and religion outside the loony ward.