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| Is Magic Real? -A Serious Discussion- http://www.avian-gamers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13729 |
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| Author: | Locke_Trinmin [ Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Is Magic Real? -A Serious Discussion- |
Magic is kind of like God and faith...you can't see God, but you just have to have faith that he's there...magic only works if you believe in it, and trust it....kind of like god and faith and such....magic intrigues me..I'd like to believe that there really is magic, and that it does work...but i'm gonna have to look into it further.. I just finished watching "Earth Sea" which I taped. It was on the scifi channel, and it was pretty good. It was based on some books. Every time I watch a movie that has "magic" in it, I wonder if it truly existed, or does exist today. It really makes me want to go out and search for things. For most people, seeing is believing, but for me, I don't have to see something to know that its there, or it exists. Perhaps magic has lost its power because either not too many, or nobody believes it anymore.....just some thoughts here.. p.s. I'm not talking about the card game, nor am I talking about card tricks, or such. I'm referring to real magic, creating fire with your hands, making a waterfall expand and put out a fire, turning a dead tree into flourishing one, giving someone life, turning something into ice.. (You get the picture) |
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| Author: | WarRedd [ Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:01 am ] |
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I used to believe in magic more, then I read to many books spoiling the secrets. Not just the basic tricks, but things like walking though fire, holding fire balls in the palm of your hand, or "magically" turning someones hand red because they were guilty of a crime. 
I still try to stay away from black cats, and not walk under ladders, not sure if that is the same sort of magic/unknowing your speaking of. Speaking of magic... http://constantinemovie.warnerbros.com/ |
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| Author: | Locke_Trinmin [ Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:08 am ] |
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That movie Constantine does look good. |
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| Author: | Angus MacGregor [ Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:34 pm ] |
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Of course magic is real. At least that's what the Easter Bunny told me last night. |
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| Author: | Orbital [ Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:45 am ] |
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Faith is the most powerful force in the universe. It has wrought the greatest, and the most terrible things. I'm not talking about the faith that you learn in Sunday School. A faith more absolute. Of course, maybe in 60 years I'll be able to find that myself, but I have faith in it. 
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| Author: | Locke_Trinmin [ Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:38 am ] |
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Angus MacGregor wrote: Of course magic is real.
At least that's what the Easter Bunny told me last night. lol |
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| Author: | Talon1977 [ Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:54 pm ] |
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Locke, your habit of deep discussion is frightening even to me.
I could probably write a ten page thesis on this subject without taking a breath, but I'll try to keep it short enough to be understandable. Keep in mind, this is merely my own opinions in most cases, backed up by the odd fact here and there, and what I've observed or experienced. Before beginning to answer the question "Does magic exist," we have the need to define the term "magic." For the purposes of this discussion, I suppose "Magic" would be defined as "any occurance that cannot be explained by human scientific knowledge of the way things behave in the natural or physical realm of existence." I just came up with that off the top of my head, so if it doesn't quite do the job, then we can revise it later. If we do define "magic" as we have done above, then the answer to the question of whether it exists, is most definately yes, magic does in fact exist. I don't think anyone would deny the fact that there certainly are rather frequent occurances, or at least reports of frequent occurances of things that cannot be explained. However, that does not do us much good in explaining what magic is. For that, we must do much more research, and explore many more possibilities and occurances throughout the history of man and our philosophies concerning the metaphysical. Since the beginning of the history of Man, we have struggled with the question of "What else is there?" Is there a spiritual realm? And if so, is the spiritual realm a reflection of the natural world or is the natural world but a shadow of a true existence in the spiritual realm. (See the works of Plato and Aristotle for discussions at great exhaustive lengths on the subject). It is at this very early point in the discussion that most people find disagreement. Though the question has been debated for millenia, we have yet to find a solution to satisfy everyone. And it is also at this point that the discussion turns to a spiritual or a religious one. So I will end this here. If anyone would like my opinions on this matter any further, feel free to PM. 
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| Author: | bigyak [ Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:07 pm ] |
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Isn't Magic just another word for Technology? I mean, really, if I can sit in bed with a little crystal ball on my lap and be linked into the hive-mind of 100,000 other people playing WoW... isn't that magic? |
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| Author: | Locke_Trinmin [ Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:40 pm ] |
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(Keep in mind, that everything I write is what I believe, and its my opinion, so its ok to disagree with me) I can't help myself Talon....I love deep discussion...I'm a dreamer, a philospher, and many other things... Magic can also be the manipulation of the four elements: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind. This is the definition that I go by. Being able to manipulate an element to your liking. The parting of the red sea with Moses would be an example. Or just think of Merlin...making roots grow up from the ground to entangle your enemies.. ...earth, water, fire, wind, HEART! ....by your powers combined I am CAPTAIN PLANET!....sorry I just couldn't resist. Call it faith, magic, the force, it's all relatively the same thing. Theres some universal energy or power out there, in the universe, and on earth, and I know it can be tapped into, and harnessed. I just try to have an open mind, be an optimist, and not limit myself to one plane of existence... In order to see God, you must have faith. In order for magic to work, you must believe. It's a bit hard to explain. |
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| Author: | Kharlaq [ Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:41 pm ] |
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Quote: I suppose "Magic" would be defined as "any occurance that cannot be explained by human scientific knowledge of the way things behave in the natural or physical realm of existence."
In my own twisted view, if it can't be explained, that doesn't mean it's magic, it means that we humans haven't yet found the scientific explanation for it. This guy still has his one million dollars, wonder why? On another note, for those of you who do believe in magic, read up on the excellent pen&paper RPG "Mage: The Ascension" by White Wolf. The concept of that game can easily be translated into the real world and explain every single "unexplainable" occurence out there. Which brings me to my last point: Why is it that certain writings have more credibility (among many) than writings that were never intended to explain things, but rather entertain while at the same time creating a perfectly viable explanation nonetheless. Is it the fact that the things made for entertainment never pretended to be an explanation? |
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| Author: | tobiasds [ Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:33 am ] |
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Ho Ho Ho it's magic I know. Never believe it's not so. |
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| Author: | Golga Bolg [ Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:41 pm ] |
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This is an argument on perception and terminology. One set of people will define magic as the inexplicable. As Talon did. Another set of people will define magic as the unknowable. I think this is more what Locke is getting at. It's tough to differentiate the two, since by definition both are inherently inexplicable, but we can never understand the unknowable. Most people define it as Talon did, but I think Locke's argument is the question of whether the unknowable really exists. |
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| Author: | Talon1977 [ Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:20 pm ] |
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I'm willing to define it either way actually, but for the sake of pointing out that magic exists, I defined it as I did. If we're talking about magic of Locke's brand, then it's not as easy for me to discuss here, with the restrictions on what should be discussed in the Avian forums. So I left it alone.
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| Author: | Locke_Trinmin [ Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:51 pm ] |
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Thanks for the responces everyone. I just had some curiosity, and wanted some more information and opinions.
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| Author: | X2-PB [ Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:08 pm ] |
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I'd split magic into four catagories: 1) Tricks that party Magicians do 2) The unexplainable (relating to science) 3) Traditional D&D style spells (of the obvious kind) 4) Traditional magic of the not-so-obvious kind (Tolken's Elvish magic) 1) is fairly obvious and isn't really being considered in this discussion. 2) has been mentioned above and I've very little to add. 3) is the most popular way of thinking about magic which may eventually be scientifically possible if Humans evolve that far but I don't believe it has or does exist. The Legend of Merlin, for example, is most likely based on a Celtic Druid or group of Druids who so happened to do a number of heroic or unexplainable things that the people at the time attributed to magic. Over the years, these stories would have been enhanced to the stories that we get today. I very much doubt that Merlin ever was an all-powerful wizard. The catagory 4) I believe is the sort of magic that does exist but not really in the form that most people think of. This covers things such as a "Magical Moment". Not really true magic as such but it's the sutble things in life that have an effect. And in this sense I would consider love a kind of magic. |
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| Author: | Master Edward [ Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:43 am ] |
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Kharlaq wrote: read up on the excellent pen&paper RPG "Mage: The Ascension" by White Wolf. The concept of that game can easily be translated into the real world and explain every single "unexplainable" occurence out there.
I must admit that Mage: The Ascension has shaped my view of magic and technology more than just a bit. I guess that makes me a believer in certain forms of magic, but not the spell kind so often associated with magic. Magic exists and can have power over people, usually those that let it influence them. Edward has experienced some truely magic moments that have shaped his life and that cannot be rationally explained fully |
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| Author: | bigyak [ Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:09 pm ] |
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I love that game (Mage: The Ascention). The Vampire game was also excellent. I also loved reading the ShadowRun game books (all 130 of them) and Amber Diceless Role Playing Games. When I finally get around to making a MMORPG, these will all be sources I heavily rely on. |
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