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Incremental upgrade...or new?
http://www.avian-gamers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14565		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  dbakke [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Incremental upgrade...or new?
http://www.avian-gamers.net/forums/posting.php?mode=reply&t=14563

6th post
Author:  Flyoc [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:50 pm ]
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muh ?
Author:  Talon1977 [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:51 pm ]
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hehe.. you got boycotted in that thread.
Author:  Kharlaq [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:00 pm ]
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First, what video card do you have now?

Secondly, do you really need an FX-55? In my opinion it's better to buy a CPU that's a few steps down from absolute top notch and save yourself a bunch of dollars (or in my case: kroner) that you can spend on something else, like more memory.

Thirdly, what PSU do you have? You can get 20-24 pin adapters that will solve that problem, but your PSU should be of good->great quality if you want to run a high-end system. I'm currently using an Antec 480W PSU and using an adapter and have no problems at all.

If you can post your current specs I can give you my opinion on what to change, not saying that I know everything about hardware, but you can at least have my personal opinion and it won't even cost you a dime :)
Author:  Talon1977 [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:32 pm ]
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You know what they say.. you get what you pay for. :P
Author:  Kharlaq [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:33 pm ]
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And I was trying to say that in a subtle way...
Author:  dbakke [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:09 pm ]
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Well let start by saying first off:

in some ways I'm splitting hairs...my system is fine, but I'm trying to figure out if i should just invest $1k now to leave it be for another 18months or invest 3k - 4k now on an SLi machine (no monitor).

I've got an ATI 256MB x800 XT for my graphics card, but its gated by a 2 year old mobo (MSI 845G-MAX-L that only has 4x AGP. I've read differing opinions on how much diff there is between 4x and 8x.

I've got 2 GB of RAM

I've got a 2.4 Ghz overclocked to 2.6 P4 CPU. My PSU is 420W...

I've got 3 case fans (1 front, 2 rear).

This is still in the theoretical stage as most of the games I play don't incroporate SLi yet (hasn't been coded into the games).

So on the PSU front, it sounds like i can buy an adapter?

On the mobo front, I think there are a couple mobo's that have been released that are dual PCI-e and AGP...so i could get one of those...haven't researched the models though.

The more i think about it the more I think I could just get away with a mobo upgrade and leave it at that...plus get a 10k IDE or 15k SATA HD to incrementally help on performance...until i get a new rig in a year.
Author:  X2-PB [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:22 pm ]
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And you think you need an upgrade?!!!

I'm still running a 1.5Ghz Athlon with 512MB RAM!
Author:  dbakke [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:08 pm ]
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well i said i was splitting hairs a bit...you see i want to run EQ2 in high quality or better mode...and its a struggle right now
Author:  Kharlaq [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:19 pm ]
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Well, if you want better game performance right now, upgrade your CPU and motherboard, I'd recommend nForce 3 and whatever AMD 64 CPU you can afford.

AGP 4x vs 8x isn't noticeable, probably not even measureable so that isn't what's holding you back, the CPU is your problem right now.

Unless you're made of cash I wouldn't spend 3k+ on a SLI system now, you simply won't get the performance increase that sum of cash would indicate. My advice would be investing in a cheapish nForce3 motherboard and a medium range AMD 64, that'd set you back about 500 bucks and you'll see a decent improvement over what you got now. The PSU (if good quality) is good enough and you can get away with an adapter for probably less than 10 bucks.

SLI support isn't depending on the games, it's the graphics driver which enables this and there's a new version coming soon (maybe already out) that has a greatly increased list of supported games.
Author:  Talon1977 [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
X2-PB wrote:
And you think you need an upgrade?!!!

I'm still running a 1.5Ghz Athlon with 512MB RAM!


pffft... you'd cry if you knew what mine was.
Author:  X2-PB [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Talon1977 wrote:
X2-PB wrote:
And you think you need an upgrade?!!!

I'm still running a 1.5Ghz Athlon with 512MB RAM!


pffft... you'd cry if you knew what mine was.
Well, being a student with no money, I do have an excuse!
Author:  dbakke [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Kharlaq. On the SLi front, understood on the drivers, but one point of clarification...I thought the game developers also had to do some stuff to their code in order for those drivers to work?
Author:  Talon1977 [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:31 am ]
Post subject: 
X2-PB wrote:
Talon1977 wrote:
X2-PB wrote:
And you think you need an upgrade?!!!

I'm still running a 1.5Ghz Athlon with 512MB RAM!


pffft... you'd cry if you knew what mine was.
Well, being a student with no money, I do have an excuse!


No, you misunderstand. Mine's HALF what yours is. :P
Author:  X2-PB [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Talon1977 wrote:
X2-PB wrote:
Talon1977 wrote:
X2-PB wrote:
And you think you need an upgrade?!!!

I'm still running a 1.5Ghz Athlon with 512MB RAM!


pffft... you'd cry if you knew what mine was.
Well, being a student with no money, I do have an excuse!


No, you misunderstand. Mine's HALF what yours is. :P
Ahh, well you earn a living, you've no excuse! :P
Author:  Angus MacGregor [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:23 am ]
Post subject: 
dbakke wrote:
in some ways I'm splitting hairs...my system is fine, but I'm trying to figure out if i should just invest $1k now to leave it be for another 18months or invest 3k - 4k now on an SLi machine (no monitor).

You really don't need to spend 3k-4k on a new machine. I spent just a hair over 1k for mine (no monitor, but I already had a good 17" flat panel) and it kicks ass in SWG and EQ2.

Here's the specs:

AMD Athlon 3200
ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Motherboard (very nice, has 2 PCI Express video slots, and is specifically built for gaming.)
1GB RAM
256MB NVIDIA GeForce 6600 PCI Express Video Card
80GB Western Digital Hard Drive
DVD-ROM drive
56K modem

It runs like a dream, and didn't kill my bank account. If I had broadband where I live, It would be even better for gaming.
Author:  X2-PB [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:31 am ]
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Angus MacGregor wrote:
If I had broadband where I live, It would be even better for gaming.
Yeah that does help!

I tend to do piecewise upgrades to my PC about once every two years. The current upgrade I'm doing is going from 40GB to 120GB hard disc and going to WinXP from Win98.

My next change will probably be a year from now and change the CPU, add some RAM, and in fact, if I'm doing that I may change the mobo and case at the same time. All the other bits will be ported from my current PC.


EDIT: oh and I always go for stuff that's not quite new, usually stuff that has only just been superceeded, because then the older stuff is slashed in price and so you get stuff that's about 6 months old for half the price you'd pay for it new.
Author:  Talon1977 [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:48 am ]
Post subject: 
X2-PB wrote:
Talon1977 wrote:
X2-PB wrote:
Talon1977 wrote:
X2-PB wrote:
And you think you need an upgrade?!!!

I'm still running a 1.5Ghz Athlon with 512MB RAM!


pffft... you'd cry if you knew what mine was.
Well, being a student with no money, I do have an excuse!


No, you misunderstand. Mine's HALF what yours is. :P
Ahh, well you earn a living, you've no excuse! :P


How's a wife, two kids (alright, almost 2 kids), a mortgage and 2 car payments for an excuse? :wink:
Author:  X2-PB [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Talon1977 wrote:
X2-PB wrote:
Talon1977 wrote:
X2-PB wrote:
Talon1977 wrote:
X2-PB wrote:
And you think you need an upgrade?!!!

I'm still running a 1.5Ghz Athlon with 512MB RAM!
pffft... you'd cry if you knew what mine was.
Well, being a student with no money, I do have an excuse!
No, you misunderstand. Mine's HALF what yours is. :P
Ahh, well you earn a living, you've no excuse! :P
How's a wife, two kids (alright, almost 2 kids), a mortgage and 2 car payments for an excuse? :wink:
I suppose we could just about allow that. Shall I send the hat around and start the "Talon PC Upgrade Fund"? :P
Author:  Talon1977 [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:40 pm ]
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oooo.. yes please. :):) or maybe you think the government should work that into their annual budget for all of us. /eyeroll
Author:  X2-PB [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Talon1977 wrote:
or maybe you think the government should work that into their annual budget for all of us. /eyeroll
Now that's an idea, might just write to my local MP and suggest it :P
Author:  Cyrus Rex [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:26 pm ]
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Quote:
or maybe you think the government should work that into their annual budget for all of us. /eyeroll


Yeah that is all we need. Computers for the masses furnished by the lowest bidder. Talon I think you would be better off with your no-WoW-playing, hamster powered PC than the matchbox and rubber band contraption the government would give you.

BTW on a related note, have you heard about the prisoners that that get out of jail early if they get college degrees while behind bars? Well next time the news talks about that subject, watch the file footage of the prisoners at their computers… they are working on Gateway 2000 keyboards. How long has Gateway dropped the 2000 part of their name? Its been at least 6 years… my oldest PC is 6 years old and it goes by the shorter name.

That is the kind of crap the government will buy you. I rather pay full price. Actually I would rather have the hamsters who power Talon’s PC gnaw out my eyes.
Author:  Talon1977 [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:44 pm ]
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LOL :lol:
Author:  dbakke [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:20 pm ]
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Okay, this is what I went with...

Quote:
- Abit AV8 VIA Socket 939 ATX Motherboard / AGP 8X/4X / Audio / Gigabit LAN / USB 2.0 / Firewire / Serial ATA

- AMD Athlon 64 3800+ / 512KB Cache / 2000MHz FSB / Socket 939 / Processor

- Masscool / Socket 754/940 / AMD Athlon 64 FX / Ball Bearing / CPU Cooling Fan

- OCZ Ultra 5+ Silver Thermal Compound

- Ultra X-Connect 20 To 24 Pin MB Cable UV Blue


I was reading Tom's hardware about building computers (won't be a complete build, but enough of a swap out) doesn't look too hard...only thing they referenced to be careful of is offsets? What the heck is that? I'm operating under the assumption that if I take everything out, swap the components and put them back in...and i flip the switch this thing'll boot up.

EDIT: Found one mistake so far...didn't need the power adapter...this mobo is a 20 pin.

Oh and Talon, if you want, you can have my old mobo / cpu... MSI845G-Max-L / Intel 2.4 Ghz...assuming of course i get this contraption to work...
Author:  X2-PB [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
dbakke wrote:
I'm operating under the assumption that if I take everything out, swap the components and put them back in...and i flip the switch this thing'll boot up.
Well it usually works like that, but then there's always those odd occassions.........
Author:  dbakke [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:27 pm ]
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lovely
Author:  X2-PB [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:29 pm ]
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So long as everything is compatable with everything else, you should be alright.
Author:  bigyak [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:03 pm ]
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And, if not, there's always geeksonwheels.
Author:  dbakke [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:34 pm ]
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Ugh...I've used them before... EXPENSIVO
Author:  dbakke [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:52 pm ]
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Okay...what about autoexec.bat .sys and all that...registry...do i need to copy that or does that reside on my hard drive?

don't forget about my offsets and SLi question above you hardcore techies out there
Author:  Kharlaq [ Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
The offsets you're talking about are probably the small brass spacers between the MB and the case, in your case they are probably already where they should be so no need to worry, just make sure there's one for each mounting hole in the MB and no more.

Looks like a nice setup btw, and assuming you didn't get any faulty hardware you should be able to just swap it all and boot up. You will need to reinstall windows though, as the motherboard swap changes so many gadgets and drivers that the old windows will get very frustrated trying to sort them all out. You might get it to work with the old one (I've done so, with lots of frustration) but you'll have a performance loss at the least.

One last thing about software: Make sure you get the latest VIA Hyperion drivers and install them as soon as possible after windows, as the ones on your CD aren't up to date.

The SLI function is driver dependent only, the version I was talking about will have support for SLI in WoW among others, the list is quite extensive.
Author:  dbakke [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:31 am ]
Post subject: 
SUCCESS!!!!

for the most part...

Well, it was a bit more difficult then I had hoped, but I got everything up and running except my new hard drive.

Things that I ran into were: clearing out CMOS and case specific issues like the power for my 3 case fans are hard wired into the power couplings from my supply...there's no little 3 pronger to plug into the mobo to monitor rpm's, change rpm's, etc...so when i booted up there was this annoying alarm going off...a bit of reading and i just shut the alarm off in BIOS.

I definitely had to re-install Windows...no hope on that front.

My only problem now is that my new WD 10k RPM WD360GD non IDE / SATA drive isn't being recognized in Windows.

It is getting recognized on the boot up as I see the mobo accounting for it, and I know you have to re-install windows, push F6 to get the drivers from the disk that came with HD, but it still doesn't show up. I tried WD's Lifeguard application because I think Windows won't recognize it until its formatted. But that application off the website didn't list my HD model. Maybe there's a unpdated version of the app but I was using v11.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Author:  Obo [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 
I seem to remember having a problem with my SATA drive not showing up.
As far as I recall, you have to go to Disk Management ("Manage" on r/c on 'My Computer') and format from there.
Author:  dbakke [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Cool, thanks Obo. I'll try that...I'm also going to get the updated BIOS (kharlaq referenced above) and see if maybe that'll help as well.
Author:  Kharlaq [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:50 am ]
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You don't necessarily need the newest BIOS although it never hurts. I highly recommend you to download and install the latest Hyperion drivers from http://www.via.com.tw as they may have something to do with SATA support in windows.
Author:  dbakke [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:58 am ]
Post subject: 
I found the specific Disk Management instructions from a pdf (that doesn't come with the HD :) ) on the WD website which essentially says what Obo's told me to do. Looks like that'll work.

Will get the Hyperion drivers like you say Kharlaq. One question...when selecting the appropriate drivers do i go with regular Windows XP or can I get the Windows XP 64 drivers since i've got the 64 bit chip now???

I have XP Pro installed....so can i unlock 64 bit processing in XP since I have Pro or is a completely diff OS?

EDIT: looks like a diff OS from what I read...so, i'm sticking with the regular XP drivers...
Author:  Kharlaq [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:28 pm ]
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Yeah, correct, 64-bit XP is a separate OS and probably not worth trying out yet as you'll need compatible drivers for things to work smoothly.
Author:  dbakke [ Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Problems are never single entities...need an updated driver in order to do the steps Obo mentioned.

Formatting now, then starting the long slog of re-installing the OS on the new drive, and allllllll of my apps....

a cookie to someone who invents internal drives that are auto recognized (and cost 118 dollars)

EDIT: looks like I spoke too soon. I can see the volume in Windows now and its been formatted. However, when I go to re-install Windows it does not give me the drive (f: drive) as an optional location...continues to only give me the C drive.

EDIT Part Deux: Can you say trial and error?!? Yeah so you have to do the whole F6 thing again during the install...finally I'm done!
Author:  bigyak [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Ding! You just gained a geeker level!

Gratz!
Author:  Cetera [ Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:49 am ]
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So what are you doing with your old computer parts?
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