I swear to all that is holy is someone makes a "Department of the Navy" crack I will jump through this screen and choke you.
| Avian Gamers Network http://www.avian-gamers.net/forums/ |
|
| Military Ranks http://www.avian-gamers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15061 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | X2-PB [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Military Ranks |
As part of a bit of research I'm doing for a story, can someone list the Officer ranks for me for the three US forces (Army, Navy, Air Force), In order please? |
|
| Author: | Cyrus Rex [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Man I should have a better site to link..... But this is where I get the ranks: http://www.clancyfaq.com/milranks.htm |
|
| Author: | bigyak [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Cyrus, That site has all the basics. Other good info with some background here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_rank X2-PB, What exactly do you want to know? If you need it, I've got a ton of other background info if you need it (and can email you a good overview powerpoint if needed). |
|
| Author: | iJasonT [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
BAH! What no Marine Corps! /shakes head and walks away |
|
| Author: | Dragon Fire [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Slightly more offical link then Cyrus's but same info basicly Officers http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/ins ... icers.html Enlisted http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/ins ... isted.html IJT Marines are on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marin ... k_insignia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marin ... k_insignia |
|
| Author: | iJasonT [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dragon Fire wrote: IJT Marines are on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marin ... k_insignia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marin ... k_insignia True, to bad X2 didn't want/need/request/forgot about the Devil Dogs! |
|
| Author: | Dragon Fire [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
iJasonT wrote: Dragon Fire wrote: IJT Marines are on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marin ... k_insignia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Marin ... k_insignia True, to bad X2 didn't want/need/request/forgot about the Devil Dogs! lol didn't notice...what is wrong with him..it maybe that he's a brit and doesn't realize they exist as a seperate branch |
|
| Author: | iJasonT [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I swear to all that is holy is someone makes a "Department of the Navy" crack I will jump through this screen and choke you.
|
|
| Author: | bigyak [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Nah... but... Muscles Are Required, Intelligence Not Expected pops to mind. 
Then again, I was a Bus Driver for years... X2, what exactly are you looking for. I think we have real-life, honest to God American military members (or past-members) from each service (except for those Navy floobs) in Avian... so, ask your questions! PS, if you hadn't guessed... there's more rivaly between the services than between the Rebels and Imperials... |
|
| Author: | iJasonT [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
bigyak wrote: Nah...
but... Muscles Are Required, Intelligence Not Expected pops to mind. My personal favorite is Uncle Sams Misguided Children |
|
| Author: | lakini81 [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The Army call them bullet sponges.
|
|
| Author: | X2-PB [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I literally just wanted the officer ranks. The story is set a few thousand years in the future and is basically about a bunch of space pilots. I figured it would be better to base the ranks off the American system (as that's how most people do it), rather than a British system. I story is a sci-fi idea I got thinking on after having a gaming discussion with Yak! If I ever get my act together, one of my several beginnings of a story may eventually become a book! |
|
| Author: | Arindel [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
iJasonT wrote: BAH! What no Marine Corps!
/shakes head and walks away Are the Merchant Marines still part of our forces? |
|
| Author: | Dragon Fire [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
lakini81 wrote: The Army call them bullet sponges.
I want to say yes Arindel ... found there school http://www.usmma.edu/ So im guessing yea... Lakini81...in Psychology thats called projection... |
|
| Author: | bigyak [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
X2-PB wrote: I literally just wanted the officer ranks. The story is set a few thousand years in the future and is basically about a bunch of space pilots. I figured it would be better to base the ranks off the American system (as that's how most people do it), rather than a British system. Hmm. The biggest thing to notice then is that the Navy officer ranks are different than the Army, Air Force and Marines... which are all the same ranks. Most sci-fi books base space ranks on the American Navy officer ranks... though this probably won't be the case, as the Air Force controls Space Command and is trying to officially change it's name to the Air and Space Force (though, that was all put on hold after 9/11)... but they still are fighting with the Navy for control of Space. Right now, it looks pretty good that the Air Force will maintain control. Some things to think about that you might be able to learn from the Navy, though... people will most likely be going out locked in a big metal box into an unfriendly "sea" for 6 months to a few years. There's all kind of discipline/psychological/sexual issues that arise in these conditions. It's VERY interesting to talk to a femal Naval officer that's gone on a 6-month cruise... where there are 50 women and 6000 men on board. Not a very... politically correct... environment. Lots of "You can have a GIRL driving an Aircraft carrier! Only men have the feel for how to handle that much mass" and so on... Of course, the Air Force has the highest percentage of females of any other service -- something like 30-40%. Thus, everything is much more equal and fair and not as sexist. (though, they still don't let women in combat roles or fly fighter planes). Just some of the Realistic things to think about to add some background flavor... Quote: I story is a sci-fi idea I got thinking on after having a gaming discussion with Yak! I'm so proud!
|
|
| Author: | Dragon Fire [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
are you sure women can't fly in the air force...one was just recently attached to the thunderbirds i thought |
|
| Author: | bigyak [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Oh yeah, they can fly. Just not fighter planes on attack missions. My sister is an Air Force C-130 Captain. Her dream has always to be an attack helicopter pilot, but she's not allowed... and complained about it to Rumsfield once (though that's another story). |
|
| Author: | iJasonT [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think the reason that Space Ranks are based on Navy is that Capital Ships are much like Navy Ships. Also, don't forget about enlisted ranks. You will need someone swabbed the decks or manning the helm. did you know: Navy Ships are called 'ships' yet Subs are called 'boats'. Reason is becuase when subs where first brought out people thought they where a joke. Calling something a boat in the navy is an insult so they called subs boats. Submariners took the word and turned it in to a source of pride and 'boat' stuck. did you also know: Back in the 60s for a women to join the Air Force she had to send a photo along with her application. My mother as in the Air Force and she would tell me how the only jobs women could have is as a secretary and they (the air force) wanted to be sure they where not getting an ugly woman to fetch them coffee. It is also true that the 'better looking' you where the higher the rank you where the secretary for. My mother often bragged that she was the secetary for the base General - she was also Miss Air Force 1970
|
|
| Author: | Cyrus Rex [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
If the Air Force beats the Navy for control of space, it will be a big win in a battle full of losses. I saw a documentary about how the Air Force and the Navy have competed on several fronts.... and time after time the Air Force was on the loosing end. I guess the main problem the Air Force had which lead to many of their ideas loosing out to the Navy’s version was the fact that in the 50's 60's and 70's the Air Force was all about Nuclear War. And all of their programs were extremity costly and gigantic in size. The Air Force wanted to get rid of fighters because their vision of the next war was 100% long range Nuclear bombers. They believed that bombs would need to be massive, and that cruse missiles would be huge devices. They believed in large blast radius rather than pinpoint accuracy. They argued that the Aircraft Carrier was obsolete, just like the battleship before it, because there was no need for fighters in tomorrows war. In place of carriers they wanted wings of bombers up in the air at all time, never landing, always refueling in air, ready to head out in a moments notice. Well as you can see now, Carriers and Fighters are very prominent. Newer and bigger carriers continue to be built. No new versions of massive bombers have been built in ages. Bombs are actually smaller not larger, and Nuclear weapons are more of a last resort than weapon of first choice. The smaller, cheaper, yet more accurate Navy missile technology has been adopted throughout the military. We use more smart weapons today because of the locations of the battlefield, and save the big blast bombs for remote targets. The vertical launch missile technology of the Navy is every where from Subs, to Missile boats, to ground based silos. This documentary was amazing. I was always a fan of the Air Force. And I still am. I was just surprised to see them getting whipped up on by the Navy in the R&D department. |
|
| Author: | tobiasds [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The merchant marine is not in any way a branch of the service. Consider that a person who sails on a fishing boat or works for ExxonMobil hauling crude is in the merchant marine. It was granted many honors however during WW2 when it had the second highest casualty percentage to only the Marine Corps. Even the civilian ships were required to convoy for over 5 years. I was a Lieutenant JG in the U.S. Military Sealift Command - Pacific. I was paid by the dept of the Navy and my ship carried a Naval Officer and several enlisted sailors. I am still not considered a veteran under any circumstances, though I could get into some officers, NCO and enlisted clubs if I chose especially because I got closer to Iraq for a longer time than a lot of people in the military. |
|
| Author: | X2-PB [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
iJasonT wrote: did you know: Traditionally the term "ship" referred to a sailing ship that had at least three fully square-rigged masts. These were then given ratings based on the number of cannon she carried. Anything smaller was a "boat" or a "yacht".
Navy Ships are called 'ships' yet Subs are called 'boats'. Reason is becuase when subs where first brought out people thought they where a joke. Calling something a boat in the navy is an insult so they called subs boats. Submariners took the word and turned it in to a source of pride and 'boat' stuck. Everything that I've seen for space so far goes along the lines of a traditional Naval carrier fleet. All the capital ships use Naval ranks, but the pilot contingant uses Air Force ranks. I assume that that is how it works currently, in that it's the Air Force simply operating off a Naval Carrier? |
|
| Author: | Dragon Fire [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
X2-PB wrote: iJasonT wrote: did you know: Traditionally the term "ship" referred to a sailing ship that had at least three fully square-rigged masts. These were then given ratings based on the number of cannon she carried. Anything smaller was a "boat" or a "yacht".Navy Ships are called 'ships' yet Subs are called 'boats'. Reason is becuase when subs where first brought out people thought they where a joke. Calling something a boat in the navy is an insult so they called subs boats. Submariners took the word and turned it in to a source of pride and 'boat' stuck. Everything that I've seen for space so far goes along the lines of a traditional Naval carrier fleet. All the capital ships use Naval ranks, but the pilot contingant uses Air Force ranks. I assume that that is how it works currently, in that it's the Air Force simply operating off a Naval Carrier? nope in the navy pilots and officers all use the same rank system...though pilots i think are allways officers... pilots in the Air Force start as Second Lieutenant not sure about the navy... The US has pilots in the Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Army... As far as space ranks they only use naval...the reason I say this is because the term Commander seems to be part of most space based ranks and General rarely is (battlestar galactica I think being the exception) Should also be noted Warrent Officers really are never used in Space based rankings usually they are simply called NCO - Non Commissioned Officers...and usually only have a last name which means they will die within the first 15 minutes of any episode (exception Chief O'Brien ST) I've never heard ranks for NCO's in a Space based show, movie, story etc....could be that they do use WO ranks but are insignificant like i said before. Anycase if you don't know these shame on ya but i'll post em anyways In SW it seems Ensign is where alot of pilots start out evidenced by the Xwing series. Only odd bit about the following ranks is the Acting Sub-Lieutenant...as in reality there could be a Acting Lt, acting captain etc... all down the line Imperial Ranks as Follows Ensign Acting Sub-Lieutenant Sub-Lieutenant Lieutenant Lieutenant Commander Commander Captain Line Captain Commodore Rear Admiral Vice Admiral Admiral Fleet Admiral High Admiral Moff Grand Moff Grand Admiral |
|
| Author: | X2-PB [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dragon Fire wrote: nope in the navy pilots and officers all use the same rank system...though pilots i think are allways officers... pilots in the Air Force start as Second Lieutenant not sure about the navy... That's interesting (I must watch Top Gun again for reference!). If you play the Wing Commander games, they use Air Force ranks for the pilots (2nd Lt, Lt, Capt, Maj, Lt Col, Col) but then all the naval officers have naval ranks (as cmdr appears quite regularly).
The US has pilots in the Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Army... As far as space ranks they only use naval...the reason I say this is because the term Commander seems to be part of most space based ranks and General rarely is (battlestar galactica I think being the exception) What I wonder is then, if Naval pilots use Naval ranks, what's the highest rank they would achieve before being given a "desk job"? Because once you're into Cmdr status you tend to be more managing ship operations rather than flying around. |
|
| Author: | Mantison Tau'rus [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
My uncle is a Rear Admiral Lower Half (promotion to Upper Half is pending) and he has been on a desk since recieving Rear Admiral. As a Cmdr, he was in charge of many different Squadrons, and still flew. He has been an Admiral for 4 years now, and his new assignment has him flying again. He is running the fleet out of Japan, and part of his job is flying from Battle Group to Battle Group from time to time.. so he had to be recertified on the new F-18 Super Hornet... Picture this, a Lt. training an Admiral on the F-18.. not just any Admiral, a former Navy Blue Angel... talk about a nervous kid !!!!!!! Yes, my uncle KICKS ASS. hehe... |
|
| Author: | X2-PB [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Now a flying Admiral just doesn't sound right to me!!! |
|
| Author: | Sluggy [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
According to the XWing series, the ranks in the naval forces are as follow from lowest to highest: Flight Officer Lieutenant Captain Colonel Commander General Admiral It should be noted that Starfighter Command is separate from Fleet Command. Ensign is a Fleet only rank, as are Naval Lieutenenant A whatever being in command of a ship, is adressed as "Captain" even if he doesn't have the proper rank. |
|
| Author: | Dragon Fire [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
X2-PB wrote: That's interesting (I must watch Top Gun again for reference!). If you play the Wing Commander games, they use Air Force ranks for the pilots (2nd Lt, Lt, Capt, Maj, Lt Col, Col) but then all the naval officers have naval ranks (as cmdr appears quite regularly).
What I wonder is then, if Naval pilots use Naval ranks, what's the highest rank they would achieve before being given a "desk job"? Because once you're into Cmdr status you tend to be more managing ship operations rather than flying around. Yea sluggy those are the reb ranks... X2 as manti said alot of them do end up getting desk jobs but they maintain flight status usually. Guess like Manti said its just an advantage of rank can do your desk job and still get the fun stuff in... |
|
| Author: | bigyak [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: What I wonder is then, if Naval pilots use Naval ranks, what's the highest rank they would achieve before being given a "desk job"? Because once you're into Cmdr status you tend to be more managing ship operations rather than flying around.
Desk jobs aren't always for the reasons you think... Usually, there's an optimal age for flying when your nervous system is tuned to the highest response level, and your head is clear of all the other small details of life (kids, wife, mortgage payments, running 100,000 underlings). To fly, you must continually pass tests and "check rides" and instructor sims... no matter how old/powerful you are. Like Manti said, you usually have younger pilots that give the check rides and test to the older ones. (My sis does the same thing). To stay on flight status (and therefore flight pay and danger pay... as military people make half of what they can get in the real world), you have to pass your rides. There's no lieniency, because a Crash Review Board is one of the worst experiences you could live through (the Spanish Inquisition seems mild by comparison). So, yes, Admirals and Colonels and Generals try to maintain their status as long as possible. Also, as the only people that fight in the Air Force are Officers (and the occasional special forces guys (who are frikken awesome, btw)), 90% of the highest positions in the Air Force are held by former pilots. It's changing a bit, but it's not unheard of for a pilot to run a giant logistics organization, or payroll, or communications/computer wings.. even when they have no idea whatsoever what a LAN is. If you aren't a pilot in the AF, you're a second-rate officer... pilots get to cut in lines at the bank, get free drinks bought all the time, and usually skip all of the paperwork that everyone else has to go through constantly. They get the extra-crisp salutes.. and deserve them. You also get Combat pay and pay no taxes for a month if you fly over (even for 15 minutes) one of the areas that marked "dangerous"... so on the 30th of the month, you see tons of high-ranking admirals and generals doing their check rides over in Germany and stopping over in Afghanistan to check on their troops... coming back on the 1st, and getting 2 months of no takes and a hefty bonus. One of the biggest changes in this balance of power is the increased use of UAVs... as they're much cheaper, have MUCH less attitude, and don't require a letter home to a grieving mother. So, the young 17-year old kids good at computer games are starting to fly stuff, and getting the "cool" missions. The senior brass, of course, is resisting this... but the savings are too great to ignore. So, things are slowly changing, hopefully for the better. On retrospect, I don't think the Air Force or the Navy will ever "win" the space competition. Like everything in America, the competition makes you stronger, better, and always pushes you not to become complacent. I bet that there will be both a Space Navy, a Space Force, and Space Marines... that will have primarily seperate missions (Space Force for the exploration/control of territories and able to focus huge power on targetted areas, Space Navy for long slow deployments and shuttling resources between the planets, Space Marines for close combat between ships and precision strikes in extremely hostile environments... and probably even the Merchant Marines for trading and ferrying goods through protected travel channels). |
|
| Author: | X2-PB [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
So if Naval pilots move to a ground base, does their rank change? |
|
| Author: | Mantison Tau'rus [ Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
No. Funny story... My Uncle came home one weekend to visit my Grandma. He takes her out to Tinker AFB for lunch at the Officer's Club (one of my Gma's favorite treats)... He rolls up to the gate in my Grandma's unmarked car, wearing civilian attire.. ie. jeans and a shirt... Guard walks up, asks to see ID... Uncle shows the ID... Guard nearly craps himself, starts falling all over himself with "Sirs" and crisp salutes.. and says " I am sorry sir, we just don't get many of you guys around here.." I half think he set it up just for my Grandma to be a proud mama , hehe.. |
|
| Author: | X2-PB [ Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mantison Tau'rus wrote: I half think he set it up just for my Grandma to be a proud mama , hehe.. Wouldn't surprise me. Sounds like something my Grandfather would've done!
|
|
| Author: | bigyak [ Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
No, your ranks never change depending on where you are.... actualy, belay that order. There's one case in which they do. In the Navy, there is only ever one "Captain" on a ship. Remember that a Navy Captain is an O6, while a Captain is an O3 in all the other services. When there is an Air Force (or Army or Marine Captain) visiting, a ship, they are reffered to as Major while they are on the ship... given a temporary promotion so that they aren't confused with the Captain of the ship, which has absolute authority on his vesel. Some other useful info (I'll just give the AF ranks for simplicity): - You're automatically an O1 (2nd Lt) when you commission as an Officer. - After exactly 2 years (in the Army, I think you can be promoted early around 1.5 years) you're promoted to O2 (1st Lt). - Exactly 2 years later (which is almost always May/June for College graduates, obviously) you make O3 (Captain). In Army/Navy, I think the dates are flexible. - About 4-6 years later, you're up for O4 (Major). This is when skill/past performances come into play. Up until O3, it's 99% automatic... before, if you hae a pulse and don't shoot the wrong people, you make it. - It's between 3-5 years expected promotion time for each of the next ranks.. - You have a "zone", which is the average time to be promoted for people who joined when you did. There's about an 8% chance that you can get a below the zone (BTZ) promotion a year early... and about 60% that you're in the Zone, about 30% that you get a year behind, and 10% that you don't make it at all... and after two failed attempts at promotion, you're automatically out. - You almost always have to retire after 20 years in... if you make O7 (Brigadeer General or Rear Admiral), then the mandatory retirement requirement ends. The good thing about this is that most officers then have to retire by 41 (as you commission after college at 21).. which keeps the forces young with fresh and energetic ideas, and prepares a hugely talented group of skilled leaders for injection into the work force when they retire... Sorry, that was a bit long-winded, but I think it'd be some great background that adds credibility to your story.
|
|
| Author: | Arindel [ Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I still need to party with Yak and avoid triva games (well ones where he may have access to the internet too). |
|
| Author: | bigyak [ Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The party is on, my friend!
I just know these things because I've lived through a few of the ranks above, and work so much in the Defense environment... And now, Antan's got me thinking about writing some sci-fi stories, myself... |
|
| Author: | X2-PB [ Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well I've begun writing some background to the story. I've written out the history of the Great Hyperspace War!!! Might have to change the name of it though 'cause I think that one's already taken! Right now the story seems like a curious mixture between Star Wars, Babylon 5, Freelancer and Wing Commander, with probably a little bit of Asimov in there for good measure! Hopefully by the time I'm finished, I'll have made it my own! |
|
| Author: | X2-PB [ Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
X2-PB wrote: Great Hyperspace War Just discovered why I recognise this, it's in Star Wars!! A battle between the Sith and the Republic 5000 years before ANH!
Oh well! I'll have to call my war something else! |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|