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How many times have you watched Serenity?
Once 44%  44%  [ 7 ]
Twice 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Three times 13%  13%  [ 2 ]
Four plus times 38%  38%  [ 6 ]
Ten plus times 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 16
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 Post subject: Serenity
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:56 pm 
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Holy Crap!! You guys said it was good, but I didn't know you meant THAT GOOD! I watched it last night, and then watched every single DVD extra, including the whole feature over again with director commentary. WOW.

How many times you guys seen it?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:14 pm 
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I've seen it over 4 times.

The movie is good. The series is much, much better.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:25 pm 
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Saw it in the theater...and enjoyed it. DVD is on my wishlist.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:33 pm 
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Saw it in the theater twice, have it on DVD, and have watched the series on DVD 2.5 times.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:50 pm 
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Talon, I know this is like your own personal forum, but come on! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:02 pm 
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Obo wrote:
Talon, I know this is like your own personal forum, but come on! :)


Actually Obo, I was saving you some work, because this topic is fixin' to turn political. Next time, I won't bother, and I'll let you take the time to move it.

The question I was intending to ask...

So who did you all root for? the evil Alliance assasin guy, or the crew of Serenity?

There are a MULTITUDE of political and philosophical messages in this movie and I intend to exploit every one of them. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:05 pm 
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Riiiight...

Moved


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:07 pm 
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:| suit yerself. I wasn't joking. You'll be moving it back soon.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:22 pm 
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I had a friend bring over disc 1 of the DVD full collection and fell in love with the show. I bought the movie and the box set and it arrived this past saturday. So, I've watched it once so far, with many more to come. Excellent story we can only hope is picked up by another network. Hopefully cable. Give it the HBO "Rome" treatment.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:05 pm 
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Talon1977 wrote:
There are a MULTITUDE of political and philosophical messages in this movie and I intend to exploit every one of them. :twisted:


Sheesh...just like some of the discussions I hear about Kong...anyone ever think there's just a cool and entertaining story to be told? Must there be a hidden agenda? :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:10 pm 
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Have watched it only once but just bought the series and got the DVD for Christmas so... once will be increasing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:08 pm 
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Talon1977 wrote:
:| suit yerself. I wasn't joking. You'll be moving it back soon.

Lets get cracking, sir.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:50 pm 
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Rocklar wrote:
Talon1977 wrote:
There are a MULTITUDE of political and philosophical messages in this movie and I intend to exploit every one of them. :twisted:


Sheesh...just like some of the discussions I hear about Kong...anyone ever think there's just a cool and entertaining story to be told? Must there be a hidden agenda? :roll:


There was nothing hidden about it. Open your eyes man! :P Actually, on top of the fact that it was blatantly obvious, if you watch the interviews with Joss Whedon (director/writer), he tells us that he's an "artist with something to say."

You need look no further than the opening dream sequence with the River in the classroom and the teacher asking "Why would they fight us? What reason do they have to reject our civilization?" or something like that.

River replies, "Meddle. They don't like their lives being meddled with. They don't like being told how to behave, what to think, or what to say."

And I'm sure I don't need to tell you that I completely agree with her. Feel free to move this back anytime you want Obo.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:35 pm 
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Rocklar wrote:
Talon1977 wrote:
There are a MULTITUDE of political and philosophical messages in this movie and I intend to exploit every one of them. :twisted:


Sheesh...just like some of the discussions I hear about Kong...anyone ever think there's just a cool and entertaining story to be told? Must there be a hidden agenda? :roll:
Ever seen Narnia? :P


(and Talon, if you want to discuss it take THAT to The Forum!)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:12 pm 
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Yes, threadjacker, Narnia was written to represent the major themes of Christianity. CS Lewis (the writer or the Narnia Chronicles) was one of the 20th Century's great theologians. Can we get to Serenity now? :P

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:48 pm 
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Never saw it, but everyone around me just loved it sooooo I'mma have to DL it !

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:56 pm 
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Lessee...how do I get access to The Forum? :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:39 am 
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If you taint the greatness that is Serenity with your silly political claptrap, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet that I will end you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:23 am 
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We're going to have to ask that you remove your pretty bonnet when you become SecDef, Angus.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:30 am 
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Cetera wrote:
We're going to have to ask that you remove your pretty bonnet when you become SecDef, Angus.


You can ask...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:37 am 
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LOL@Angus... if you don't want to think about the politics of it, talk to Joss Whedon.

Since no one answered my question, I'll ask it again. Which side did you root for? The evil Alliance assassin or the crew of Serenity?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:41 am 
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Talon1977 wrote:
LOL@Angus... if you don't want to think about the politics of it, talk to Joss Whedon.
Why should I have to talk to him? I didn't watch it for any political reason, I watched it because it was just a damn good movie about my favorite TV series.

Talon1977 wrote:
Since no one answered my question, I'll ask it again. Which side did you root for? The evil Alliance assassin or the crew of Serenity?
The crew, of course. That's really a no-brainer, isn't it?

Sometimes entertainment is just entertainment. And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I don't have to worry about the hidden meaning in the Narnia books to enjoy them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:46 am 
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Silly Angus, don't you realize, by liking Serenity and the Crew... you actually have chosen to support Al Queda and the Taliban !!!!

REPENT YOUR EVIL WAYS YOU TRAITOROUS DOG !!!!!!!

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Mantison Tau'rus wrote:
Silly Angus, don't you realize, by liking Serenity and the Crew... you actually have chosen to support Al Queda and the Taliban !!!!

REPENT YOUR EVIL WAYS YOU TRAITOROUS DOG !!!!!!!


If loving Firefly and Serenity is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Now if you will excuse me, I have bombs to make.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:53 am 
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I will be joining you then Angus....

BROWNCOAT POWAH !!!!!!!!

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Angus MacGregor wrote:
Sometimes entertainment is just entertainment. And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I don't have to worry about the hidden meaning in the Narnia books to enjoy them.


::you have gained +200 Rocklar faction::

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:54 am 
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All may not be lost...there is still hope

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:00 pm 
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dbakke wrote:
All may not be lost...there is still hope

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?id=34083


We can only hope. Must make more bombs!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:04 pm 
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uh - you didn't make 'never' a choice.
Looks like one I'll have to check out.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:15 pm 
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Rocklar wrote:
Angus MacGregor wrote:
Sometimes entertainment is just entertainment. And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I don't have to worry about the hidden meaning in the Narnia books to enjoy them.


::you have gained +200 Rocklar faction::


Yes, sometimes it is art for art's sake. But most of the time, people don't tell pointless stories. And in this case Joss Whedon stated that he had something to say. If you choose not to listen, that's your choice.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:22 pm 
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I voted. But Im purposly not posting comments and I just cannot use FireFly or Serenity in any politically charged topics. Make another thread and I'll join in.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:32 pm 
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comments moved

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Last edited by dbakke on Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:49 pm 
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To re-direct the conversation...

Quote:
Quote:
Since no one answered my question, I'll ask it again. Which side did you root for? The evil Alliance assassin or the crew of Serenity?
The crew, of course. That's really a no-brainer, isn't it?


It really IS a no-brainer, isn't it. The question is why. Why, besides the cool ship, the brown duster coat, the butt kicking attitudes, the coy humor and all that, why do we instinctively root for the crew?

If the story was told from the perspective of the alliance, would we root for them? If the story wasn't about a renegade crew of freedom fighters, but instead focused on a Utopian Alliance doing everything they can to stamp out a rabid free-thinking peon... would we then hope THEY succeed?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:55 pm 
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Talon1977 wrote:

It really IS a no-brainer, isn't it. The question is why. Why, besides the cool ship, the brown duster coat, the butt kicking attitudes, the coy humor and all that, why do we instinctively root for the crew?


It's because that's how the stroy is told, and there's a ton of psychology and hollywood magic trying to make the viewer root for the browncoats. Even if they are lying, stealing, killers that transport fugitives and rob hospitals. I'm not saying it's worng, I'm saying that it's hollywood. I root for the browncoats.

Talon1977 wrote:
If the story was told from the perspective of the alliance, would we root for them? If the story wasn't about a renegade crew of freedom fighters, but instead focused on a Utopian Alliance doing everything they can to stamp out a rabid free-thinking peon... would we then hope THEY succeed?


The request went out three times not to talk about politics on this thread and move it to the forum...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:18 pm 
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Talon1977 wrote:
Rocklar wrote:
Angus MacGregor wrote:
Sometimes entertainment is just entertainment. And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I don't have to worry about the hidden meaning in the Narnia books to enjoy them.


::you have gained +200 Rocklar faction::


Yes, sometimes it is art for art's sake. But most of the time, people don't tell pointless stories. And in this case Joss Whedon stated that he had something to say. If you choose not to listen, that's your choice.


Once again... I really don't care. I watch movies to be entertained. If I'm not being entertained, why the hell would I want to spend money on it?

In the case of Firefly/Serenity, I love them because they're about characters with depth and meaning. The writing is just phenominal, witty and engaging. The characters are well fleshed-out, and the setting is awesome. Just a handful of people trying to make a life for themselves in a hostile environment with a ship that has no weapons. No flashy lasers or torpedos.

As far as choosing not to listen to whatever it is that Joss had to say... you're way off base. I'm enjoying the stories the way they are. I'm not trying to find any hidden meanings, and I'm surely not going to ruin my enjoyment of them just because someone thinks I should try and read between the lines.

Why have I never watched Fahrenheit 9/11? Because it's about one idiot's views on politics. It doesn't sound enjoyable, or entertaining. It's a rant. I'm not spending my money on crap like that. I don't watch movies for a message, I watch them for fun.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:39 pm 
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Quote:
The request went out three times not to talk about politics on this thread and move it to the forum...


You may have missed the fact that this thread was started in the Forum, and it was started there for a reason. Obo took it upon himself to move it, and then leave it here when I asked him to move it back.

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I've decided to post about why I love Serenity/Firefly. But I'm going to let someone speak for me, because he has done it much more eloquently than I ever could.

This is the review of Serenity by Orson Scott Card, author of Ender's Game, dated September 30th, 2005.

Orson Scott Card wrote:
Serenity

For some of you, 30 September 2005 has been circled on your calendars ever since the release date of Serenity was announced. That's because you have seen the TV series Firefly and you love these characters and can't wait to see them again.

Some of you have no idea what all the hooplah is about.

Some of you didn't even know there was any hooplah.

And it's true that there hasn't been some massive hype campaign. Instead, the producers and the studio did something different.

They held special screenings of Serenity starting much earlier in the year, letting diehard fans of Firefly see the feature film and then talk about it.

And talk they have. I've been hearing buzz about how great the movie is for months.

But here's how much the fans love this movie and want it to succeed. Some massively important things happen in this movie, things that are emotionally devastating, things that it would be almost unbearable to know about without telling.

Yet as far as I know, nobody has told. I walked into this movie reasonably aware of the advance word-of-mouth (though not obsessively so) and only as the film actually began this afternoon, the day of its premier, did it occur to me that I had not heard a whisper of a breath of the actual plot of the movie. All I heard was, "It's great, you'll love it."

Well, guess what.

It's great.

I'm not going to say it's the best science fiction movie, ever.

Oh, wait. Yes I am.

Let me put this another way. Those of you who know my work at all know about Ender's Game. I jealously protected the movie rights to Ender's Game so that it would not be filmed until it could be done right. I knew what kind of movie it had to be, and I tried to keep it away from directors, writers, and studios who would try to turn it into the kind of movie they think of as "sci-fi."

Because I know that science fiction doesn't have to be all mindless action. Or even mindful action. I can praise a movie like I, Robot and mean it, without for a second thinking that what I'm seeing is great sci-fi.

I can enjoy the first Matrix and see it as a kind of magic sci-fi, but recognize that in the end, it's all about the mystical quasi-religious ideas and the special effects, and not about human beings at all.

Because for me, a great film -- sci-fi or otherwise -- comes down to relationships and moral decisions. How people are with each other, how they build communities, what they sacrifice for the sake of others, what they mean when they think of a decision as right vs. wrong.

Yeah, even comedies. Even romantic comedies -- it's those moral decisions.

Wow, that sounds so heavy. But great film is heavy -- out of sight, underneath everything, where you don't have to be slapped in the face by it. On the surface, it can be exciting, funny, cool, scary, horrifying -- all those things that mean "entertainment" to us.

Underneath it all, though, it has to mean something. And the meaning that matters is invariably about moral decisions people make. Motives. Relationships. Community. If those don't work, then you can gloss up the surface all you want, we'll know we've just been fed smoke. Might smell great but we're still hungry.

So here's what I have to say about Serenity:

This is the kind of movie that I have always intended Ender's Game to be (though the plots are not at all similar).

And this is as good a movie as I always hoped Ender's Game would be.

And I'll tell you this right now: If Ender's Game can't be this kind of movie, and this good a movie, then I want it never to be made.

I'd rather just watch Serenity again.

Now, I'm fussy about my science fiction movies. For the past few years I've been telling people that there are only a handful of truly brilliant sci-fi movies, and most of them are by Charlie Kaufman. (I almost don't care who the director is -- Being John Malkovich and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind are absolutely by the writer, Charlie Kaufman.)

Before Kaufman, I'd simply tell people that I don't much care for sci-fi films. Mostly because nobody actually made any sci-fi films. They made horror films or mysteries or westerns in spacesuits, but sci-fi? Uh-uh. Nothing that reached into the heart of the genre and breathed life into it.

You can move models around on the screen all you like. Just because you whoosh up your spaceships doesn't make it science fiction as it's supposed to be.

Now, a lot of people called Firefly a western masquerading as science fiction, and I can see why -- they rode horses sometimes, and they rode into town, shot things up, and then rode back out of town, and the only difference between them and the Lone Ranger was that the "horse" was a clunky old spaceship named Serenity.

But that's not really all that was ever going on. There was nothing "lone" about these rangers. On that ship we had an interlocking community with a history, rather like what has been a-building with Lost and what was developed over the years with Friends (but what never existed in Seinfeld because the main writer, Larry David, doesn't seem to believe in anything, and you can't build a powerful community on a sneer).

The key to this kind of movie is that you create a community that the audience wishes they belonged to, with a leader that even audience members who don't follow anybody would willingly follow. That will be the key to Ender's Game if the movie is ever successfully made; and it is the key to Serenity.

If you've seen Firefly then you don't need me to tell you a thing -- you're probably already in the theater.

This movie might be too strong for you. Or, just maybe, it's the movie that is finally strong enough that you feel like there's something there.

It won't be obvious in a literary-novel kind of way, where the writer is sure to point out his trivial little "central metaphor" and all his "deep" characters who are for some reason still mad at the writer's Mommy and Daddy.

It will feel like adventure, like a bunch of macho strutting, like a lot of whizbang and dead bodies and violence and vaguely weird language until all of a sudden you realize: I care about these people. I like these people. Even the unlikeable ones, I care about. Even the villain really is somebody.

Think about this: Hamlet has a lot of violence and death, intrigue and betrayal; it's downright gothic. In fact, if you hadn't already been told it was a "great work" and somebody told you the plot, you'd think, what a bunch of junk.

Only it isn't, is it? And why? Because, of course, it's very well written -- but more than that, it's about something. Relationships and moral dilemmas and -- oh, wait, I've already given you that list.

Lots of sense-of-wonder (oooooh, a ghost!) and sudden shocks (don't kill the man behind the curtain!) and grim deaths (Ophelia did what?) and the gratuitously macabre (oh, look, let's play with a dead friend's skull) -- but it holds together because it's about something.

Well, not only is Serenity about something, it's also extremely well written. Joss Whedon has invented a kind of weird future slang that is still perfectly intelligible but is different, with snatches of foreign languages and obsolete English words that make it clear that it's not ordinary English they're speaking.

The effect of this -- at least in Whedon's deft hands -- is to allow himself something of the kind of heroic language that was possible for Shakespeare -- and for Tolkien. It allows him to be eloquent.

And then he turns around and deliberately clanks with some humorously abrupt language that makes us laugh for the sheer startlement of it. Just as Shakespeare did, when he'd drop from blank verse to the funny coarseness of comic prose.

Will everyone like it? Not a chance. It really is too strong for some people -- there are indeed dead bodies and cruelty and unspeakable violence, and you don't want to deal with the nightmares that young children will have. Plus the storyline is smart enough and mature enough that some people simply won't get it. Can't be helped -- it's all there on the screen, though.

For those of you who love the TV series, keep this in mind: They can't give equal time and importance to all the characters you know and love. They're all there, but the story centers around -- and resolves -- the mystery of River. In fact, it's fair to say that the two central characters in this movie are River (played by Summer Glau) and Mal, the captain and owner of the ship (Nathan Fillion). But everyone else is there and every gets some great moments and every single actor does a splendid job.

Heck, they even have Tamara Taylor, the actress who plays Walt's mother on Lost -- you know, she of the lovely face who tears her son's father apart while always looking so kind. A bit part in this movie -- but one that is brilliantly done.

Charlie Kaufman's movies have been great science fiction, but without being completely open and accessible to the mainstream audience.

Joss Whedon is not as artistically edgy, but is every bit as inventive, and he has the common touch. Like Shakespeare, he doesn't have to show off to prove himself an artist, he only has to tell the story his way, and the art takes care of itself.

So stop reading this. Go get your tickets. See this movie.

Or don't. Play it safe. Stay home. Watch reruns of Full House. That was a really funny, heartwarming TV series and it's just a shame the kids have all grown up and now we can never have the feature film with the original cast.


Please note... there is no mention of any sort of political agenda on Joss Whedon's part. Why? Because the movie and the series just plain kicks ass all on it's own.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:06 pm 
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There's not??

Quote:
Underneath it all, though, it has to mean something. And the meaning that matters is invariably about moral decisions people make.


Why is it when I say it, it's either not understood or it's just chucked out the window, but when Orson says it, it's brilliant?

Simple answer I guess. I'm not Orson Scott Card.

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Last edited by Talon1977 on Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:08 pm 
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Talon1977 wrote:
There's not??

Quote:
Underneath it all, though, it has to mean something. And the meaning that matters is invariably about moral decisions people make.


Why is it when I say it, it's either not understood or it's just chucked out the window, but when Orson says it, it's brilliant?

Simple answer I guess. I'm not Orson Scott Card.


Umm... funny. I see nothing referencing politics, or any kind of political anything in that statement.


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The more complicated answer is, somehow you may have forgotten that "politics" is a little more than Republicans and Democrats, more than just Right vs. Left. Politics entails just what Card is talking about... the moral decisions we make, and why.

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