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I will say however that all the hype was overdone, at least IMHO. More later.

Sure a lot of the hype was whipped up by the fanbois.

I myself don't even bother to listen.

BUT Brad did say this wouldn't be released until "finished", whatever that means.

And Brad did say this would be THE defining 3rd Generation MMO.

I don't see either of the above happening.

So some of the hype was done by the man himself. Again Im not saying this pisses me off or anything. I just find it a bit disappointing.

it will be even better on SOE's monster farm.

Aranarth wrote:

it will be even better on SOE's monster farm.

My policy with anything SOE is to wait and see. They have set a bad precedent lately.

First sign the game wouldn't be worth your time: I got into beta. Started downloading. Two days later, it's still going. I realize I'm downloading something that's 20GB. Canceled the download without a second thought. F*** that. I'd pay that much in HD space for something like Spore, but Vanguard is far from that good, otherwise the hype would be deafening.

You guys are probably right about the train wreck, I think I am going to go along for a ride for a while just to see what happens.......

A decent immersive crafting system (at least IMHO) , boats, and player housing/cities is too much of a draw for me not to check it out.

Those are some of the defining elements I look for in a game. It's just too bad I can not get the slightest bit interested in it. It looks great, sounds great, but I just can't talk myself into another "eq" type fantasy setting. It's bad enough I got talked into playing WoW again on a free server... :oops:

Well I think this is my last shot as well. Im tired of trying to find a decent replacement for SWG pre-CU.

My kids are playing on a WoWemu right now as well. WoW just wasn't the game for me. Crafting didn't really matter, no player housing.. The game is wel done, it just doesn't have what Im looking for in an MMO. And I tried to get into it 3 times, highest I got was about level 30 before I quit from Boredom.

What does emu stand for anyway? (and please nobody tell me it's a bird!)

X2-PB wrote:

Curiosity got the best of me. I started to download Vanguard. It should be done by March 17th I think.

Tetran wrote:

X2-PB wrote:

Curiosity got the best of me. I started to download Vanguard. It should be done by March 17th I think.

Only if everything goes well and you dont get any DC's between now and then.

On the bright side you can drink a green beer on the day you start playing Vanguard :lol:

The WoWemu I was playing around on is offline at the moment and moving to a location with a more robust internet connection. At spracticnet.com's forums, the botton section is for the Sky Crusher forums. It should be back in in a day or so. You can do a google search for wow emu and check out the "Top 100" websites and find some pretty stable ones as well. I only play on spraticnet's since it's run by Kitek and other Chilastrians from SWG.

This is not that review. That review will never exist, because I am simply not willing to force myself to play long enough to construct a fully realized impression of Norrath. No, wait. Norrath was Everquest. What's this place called again? Let me look it up, and I'll get back to you …

… Telon! Right, that's the place I've been avoiding.

Author:	GodOfGophers [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	Vanguard Beta
Just got my Vanguard Beta Key and wondering if anyone else did or is considering trying it out. The game is so full of hype that I'm sure it can't measure up to my expectations but I'm going to give it a try. BTW, I got my key as a Fileplanet member.

Author:	TheMole [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:
I want to give it a shot but i'm not a fileplanet member...

Author:	Stilgar [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Interesting
I would love to here your impressions about the game if you decide to try it out... looks like it could be pretty cool. And I agree, it sure seems like they are promising a lot... if they deliver, could be a pretty cool game.

Author:	Acritus [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:
yeah i would like to give it a try but im not a fileplanet member. let us know how you think it is please

Author:	Aranarth [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:47 am ]
Post subject:
I'm trying it out, not sure what to make of it quite yet. I will say however that all the hype was overdone, at least IMHO. More later.

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Vanguard Beta http://www.avian-gamers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17689	Page 1 of 2

Author:	GodOfGophers [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:58 am ]
Post subject:
I'm afraid I don't have the machine for this. I have the game on the lowest settings and it runs too slow for me to do anything. I'm looking into some tweaks that I can make but for now I'm putting it off until I get a better machine, which may be soon.

Author:	Tetran [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:58 am ]
Post subject:
Aranarth wrote: I will say however that all the hype was overdone, at least IMHO. More later. Shock and ahhhhhhh

Author:	GodOfGophers [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:
It's interesting reading the main boards. There are some that feel the game is not for them and others that love it to death (even though I doubt they've even played it). But the majority seem to think that game is right where it's supposed to be, and it's still early. Would like to hear more from you, Aranarth, on what you feel is not living up to the Hype. Even if you were playing in the closed beta, a vast majority of the game is still not available. I'm not attacking, just like to know what you are not liking.

Author:	Aranarth [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:
Im not sure its a case of like vs dislike or black vs white. Two things I will say but first let me qualify, I have only played Open beta over the weekend and the last two days, maybe about 15 to 20 hours max of play. 1. Brad said this game would be different, a 3rd Generation MMO. Two different things I see so far are the diplomacy and character classes that are actually unique. But other than that its an updated EQ/EQ2. The crafting is different as well from those two but nothing earth shattering, at least its not click and craft. 2. Brad said this game would not be released until ready. BUT its clear there are still a lot of issues to adress stability wise, lag wise, and game wise (many of the newbie quests are still broken). After all this hype, I guess I was expecting more from Open Beta performance and gameplay wise. And I have heard thru the rumor mill, that Brad has admitted he is out of money, and the game is going to get released. So much for a polished MMO on release........... So in a nutshell, Im a bit disappointed, not surprised, just disappointed because Brad stressed that this game would be "different". But right now, Im seeing an updated version of EQ, thats going to be released basically like every other MMO on the market, unfinished and buggy. If you liked EQ (EQ2) you will probably like this game, I'm thinking. But I just don't think its going to live up to the hype its recieved AT RELEASE. Thats pretty much it so far. I (for all of its problems) enjoyed playing EQ2, and Ill probably give Vanguard a shot. Its just not going to live up to the hype IMHO. So its not really like or dislike, its more of a "OK an updated EQ, whats all the big deal about?"

Author:	GodOfGophers [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks for the post, Aranarth. Some of the lag is supposed to be attributed to the fact that the game is in debug-mode. So, it'll run a little slower. Unfortunately, its the state of the industry that games will come out early. And I don't really even mind it as long as they correct issues that need correcting. I too will try it out. It still has too much potential for me, the classes and open ended world seem very unique.

Author:	Ivanov [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Ya, Brad said on the beta boards (pre-open beta) that basically they were out of money, and had to release. Some were trying to blame SOE for the early release, but Brad basically said SOE was the only reason they have had these past few months. Reading between the lines, it looks like Microsoft was pushing for a Fall/Holiday release. In their favor, the amount of work that they have done in the past few months is great. The game that VG is right now is 100% better than it was at the begining of Beta 3. They have something like 100 people working on it, and SOE has been loaning them people (coders, etc). While it will not be very polished at release, it will not be a mess either as has been put forth on many gamer boards. The hype that was built up around VG was huge, and most of it by gamers themselves. No game could have lived up to the expectations that many had. I was the opposite - the hype actually turned me off on the game. It was not until I was bored and started plaing in Beta 3 that I actually started to like it. Personally, I really like VG. The world is huge, and while some of the classes are fairly straightforward, some classes like Bloodmages are a blast to play. It does need some work in some areas (not talking bugs, etc. but things such as lore), and some of the low level "dungeons" are fairly plain (below level 10). Main reason I am not picking it up at release is that, while it runs fine on my machine on balanced to high quality settings (AMD 64 3200, 1 gig ram, x850 ATI card), it will have a real hard time on the wife's laptop. Also, it is very group-intensive, and with school starting back on the 16th, just do not have the ability to be LFG alot Once we can swing 3 mmo's accounts a month, I will probably pick it up.

Author:	iJasonT [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:26 am ]
Post subject:
Nice review Ivanov, I have been looking (not really following) VG for a bit now. I try to atleast play each new MMO for a month or so. I may wait this one out.

Author:	Cyrus Rex [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:38 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks for the posts!

Author:	GodOfGophers [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:46 am ]
Post subject:
Ivanov, great review and thanks. You hit the nail on the head with the hype about the game. So many ex EQ'ers are dying for this game to bring back that spark that they had so many years ago. Nothing has done it for them since.

Author:	GodOfGophers [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Would someone care to link me to a good WOW emu? I'd certainly appreciate it.

Author:	Deak Almar [ Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Was offered a beta invite when getting my copy of Burning Crusade at gamestop but I knew I wouldn't have the time to dedicate to it.

Author:	Aranarth [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:32 am ]
Post subject:
Sure a lot of the hype was whipped up by the fanbois. I myself don't even bother to listen. BUT Brad did say this wouldn't be released until "finished", whatever that means. And Brad did say this would be THE defining 3rd Generation MMO. I don't see either of the above happening. So some of the hype was done by the man himself. Again Im not saying this pisses me off or anything. I just find it a bit disappointing.

Author:	Ivanov [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Aranarth wrote: Sure a lot of the hype was whipped up by the fanbois. I myself don't even bother to listen. BUT Brad did say this wouldn't be released until "finished", whatever that means. And Brad did say this would be THE defining 3rd Generation MMO. I don't see either of the above happening. So some of the hype was done by the man himself. Again Im not saying this pisses me off or anything. I just find it a bit disappointing. Well, to be fair on the two statements Brad made: They are basically out of money. Brad posted right before open beta that he knows it will not be finished at release and they are pushing to get as much done as possible, but he would have prefered having another 2-3 months. That's one of those things that has kinda been taken out of his hands. Also, early in Beta they basically had to scrap their entire combat system (the original was turn-based and required alot of strategy, but from what I understand, beta testers thought it was too slow, etc). I think that is what threw them off their pace big time. As far as the 3rd gen stuff, Brad also at the time stated his idea of "2nd gen" and "3rd gen" was related to the time the game is released. Ie: EQ1, DAOC, Asheron's Call, AO, etc. being 1st Gen. WoW, EQ2, AC2, L2, etc. being "2nd Gen", and VG, Age of Conan, Warhammer being "3rd Generation". And to that extent, he was being honest, though what he defined as "3rd Gen" and what others define are two different things. In that context, will it be "the defining 3rd Generation mmo"? Time will tell. It all depends on AOC and Warhammer. Both games are pvp-centric from what I have read, which usually places a burden on new title, but both also have name recognition with the Conan and Warhammer franchises. If VG can get their servers stable (and it will help when they move from their dev servers to SOE's established server farm), and they can get the game polished up in the next 2-3 months (which based upon how much they have gotten done in just the past 2 months is very possible), then they have a solid chance. What VG does is take all of the elements from what games had done before, and using them to an extent that expands, and in some ways, dwarfs the previous games they are borrowing from, with the exception of instancing which they do not use at all. The best way I have been able to describe it is that VG is like EQ1/EQ2/WoW's big brother. Same genetics, same heart, just bigger. Though having to watch not just ahead and behind, but on the walls, ceiling, etc. for mobs is a small, but nice, step forward. As far as players ideas of what "3rd generation mmo" means, honestly, I am not sure. Because of their nature, I am not sure there is a way for MMO's to move forward beyond taking what was done before and providing their own twist on the idea. A true blending of FPS games with an MMO I guess would be the next step, but unless everything is instanced to death, I think lag, server hiccups, etc. would kill more players than some monster they encounter.

Author:	Aranarth [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Now don't get me wrong. Im not trying to be the bitching forum troll that most of us here just cringe about when we read there post(s). Im really trying not to be that way. And this happening to vanguard really doesn't surprise me, sadly its become almost the industry standard for MMO's, and even more sadly its seems like the market has accepted that. My whole point is Brad said it was going to be different with Vanguard, and it won't be. Thats what has me disappointed. HOWEVER, I do agree with you this game has trememndous potential, if they can get it cleaned up and flush out the content. Im not that worried about server stability, Im actually kind of glad it sucks now because that means they are trying to break it so it will be better upon release, and yep //agreed// it will be even better on SOE's monster farm. With that being said Im probably going to give this a go anyway. A unique crafting system along with player housing, an absolutely huge world and 117 different varieties of boats is just too many possibilities to pass on IMHO. I guess we can all muse over it 6 months from now and see how it turns out

Author:	Arindel [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Aranarth wrote: it will be even better on SOE's monster farm. My policy with anything SOE is to wait and see. They have set a bad precedent lately.

Author:	Ivanov [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:
Arindel wrote: Aranarth wrote: it will be even better on SOE's monster farm. My policy with anything SOE is to wait and see. They have set a bad precedent lately. Well, to be fair this is not really an SOE title like EQ2 or SWG, in that they are not handling any of the development. Most of the game was developed while Sigil was working with Microsoft. SOE's involvment is limited to providing the extra funds Sigil needed to get this far, the use of the server farms, and distribution. In the past few weeks, they have loaned Sigil a few programmers to help get stuff coded, but not design or development.

Author:	Orbital [ Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:28 am ]
Post subject:
First sign the game wouldn't be worth your time: I got into beta. Started downloading. Two days later, it's still going. I realize I'm downloading something that's 20GB. Canceled the download without a second thought. F*** that. I'd pay that much in HD space for something like Spore, but Vanguard is far from that good, otherwise the hype would be deafening.

Author:	TheMole [ Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Orbital wrote: First sign the game wouldn't be worth your time: I got into beta. Started downloading. Two days later, it's still going. I realize I'm downloading something that's 20GB. Canceled the download without a second thought. F*** that. I'd pay that much in HD space for something like Spore, but Vanguard is far from that good, otherwise the hype would be deafening. 20GB?! That's ridiculous.

Author:	Obo [ Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:
The only entertainment value to be had out of VG is watching the impending train wreck. Yet another run of the mill Diku with screwed up rush job release. Besides, any game that has anything that looks like a furry in it needs to go join the E.T. game in that landfill.

Author:	Aranarth [ Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:18 am ]
Post subject:
You guys are probably right about the train wreck, I think I am going to go along for a ride for a while just to see what happens....... A decent immersive crafting system (at least IMHO) , boats, and player housing/cities is too much of a draw for me not to check it out.

Author:	Tetran [ Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:37 am ]
Post subject:
Aranarth wrote: You guys are probably right about the train wreck, I think I am going to go along for a ride for a while just to see what happens....... A decent immersive crafting system (at least IMHO) , boats, and player housing/cities is too much of a draw for me not to check it out. Those are some of the defining elements I look for in a game. It's just too bad I can not get the slightest bit interested in it. It looks great, sounds great, but I just can't talk myself into another "eq" type fantasy setting. It's bad enough I got talked into playing WoW again on a free server...

Author:	Aranarth [ Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:
Tetran wrote: Those are some of the defining elements I look for in a game. It's just too bad I can not get the slightest bit interested in it. It looks great, sounds great, but I just can't talk myself into another "eq" type fantasy setting. It's bad enough I got talked into playing WoW again on a free server... Well I think this is my last shot as well. Im tired of trying to find a decent replacement for SWG pre-CU. My kids are playing on a WoWemu right now as well. WoW just wasn't the game for me. Crafting didn't really matter, no player housing.. The game is wel done, it just doesn't have what Im looking for in an MMO. And I tried to get into it 3 times, highest I got was about level 30 before I quit from Boredom.

Author:	Tetran [ Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Aranarth wrote: Well I think this is my last shot as well. Im tired of trying to find a decent replacement for SWG pre-CU. My kids are playing on a WoWemu right now as well. WoW just wasn't the game for me. Crafting didn't really matter, no player housing.. The game is wel done, it just doesn't have what Im looking for in an MMO. And I tried to get into it 3 times, highest I got was about level 30 before I quit from Boredom. Believe me, it's just to kill time It's the WoWemu run by the eXile SWGemu guys. I talked Kitek into turning on complete double xp over the weekend since no one really wants to invest a lot of time into it. The good news is SWGEmu is in a larger, closed testing phase now and the reports are good.

Author:	X2-PB [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:36 am ]
Post subject:
What does emu stand for anyway? (and please nobody tell me it's a bird!)

Author:	Tetran [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:42 am ]
Post subject:
X2-PB wrote: What does emu stand for anyway? (and please nobody tell me it's a bird!) It stands for emulator. Just about any MMORPG has a server emulator running, or 100's of them. I don't want to hijack the thread, but PM me if you'd like. We've had a thread running in the SWG forums about them. Curiosity got the best of me. I started to download Vanguard. It should be done by March 17th I think.

Author:	Aranarth [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Tetran wrote: X2-PB wrote: Curiosity got the best of me. I started to download Vanguard. It should be done by March 17th I think. Only if everything goes well and you dont get any DC's between now and then. On the bright side you can drink a green beer on the day you start playing Vanguard

Author:	Tetran [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:
The WoWemu I was playing around on is offline at the moment and moving to a location with a more robust internet connection. At spracticnet.com's forums, the botton section is for the Sky Crusher forums. It should be back in in a day or so. You can do a google search for wow emu and check out the "Top 100" websites and find some pretty stable ones as well. I only play on spraticnet's since it's run by Kitek and other Chilastrians from SWG.

Author:	Tetran [ Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:
Aranarth wrote: Tetran wrote: X2-PB wrote: Curiosity got the best of me. I started to download Vanguard. It should be done by March 17th I think. Only if everything goes well and you dont get any DC's between now and then. On the bright side you can drink a green beer on the day you start playing Vanguard Hehe..that's bad when the first date off in the distance that comes to mind is that day

Author:	X2-PB [ Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Tetran wrote: The WoWemu I was playing around on is offline at the moment and moving to a location with a more robust internet connection. At spracticnet.com's forums, the botton section is for the Sky Crusher forums. It should be back in in a day or so. You can do a google search for wow emu and check out the "Top 100" websites and find some pretty stable ones as well. I only play on spraticnet's since it's run by Kitek and other Chilastrians from SWG. Doesn't emus cause legal problems?

Author:	Tetran [ Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:40 am ]
Post subject:
Depends on how it's developed and executed. Some people over the years have made emus from stolen code. Some made them from the ground up by reversing packets. The ones that get in trouble are the ones that try to charge money for it for access. You can't do that. A free emulation made from original code with absolutely no financial gain is the way to go. You're not breaking any commercaal copyright laws if you're not profiting from using the assets in anyway. All a MMO server is, is a giant database. Not very sexy. The program as you know it lies on the CD you purchased. You own it. You're paying X company $X a month to use their servers. That subscription fee has nothing to do with the software you own. I'm sure someday a company will try and craft A EULA limiting the use of the software to only times when you are connected to their subscription servers, but I doubt that will digest well with the public and courts. The SWG emu has a lot going for it. The server program is being created with original code using packet reversing from pre-cu packets. Anyone can use a packet sniffer on their own PC. There's nothing any company can say otherwise. It's emulating a game that was abandoned. There is no direct market competition technically. And thirdly, probably the most important, LEC and SOE have said "go ahead. you don't bother us, and we won't bother you" in a meeting they had with the emu developers. Because they know, legally, there's nothing they can do to stop it. The more high-profile Blizzard cases involved shut downs due to stolen code and charging for access. Same for a recent Lineage 2 server shut down that made the news. I'm lucky enough to have an IP attorney in the firm I work at, so I can pick his brain over drinks.

Author:	Aranarth [ Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Well if its any consolation, I see the client performance, and the content improving noticeably every day as Vanguard Rockets towards launch. If they keep up this pace a couple of months after launch, I think they will have a very playable game. I am in two guilds already getting ready to populate this game. If any are interested let me know, Ill put in a good word for any Avian who wants to tag along. I just wish I would have found you guys in SWG way back when, and if you ever do emulator, Ill be right there with ya, sucking up those resources night and day Here is a pretty good site with Vanguard info if any others are interested in checking it out. Visit Vanguard Spheres to register and participate today! http://www.vanguardspheres.com/forums/register.php?referrerid=2290[/url]