Avian Gamers Network

As I said to many of you in an in-game E-mail, I am being harassed by Vithar for selling too low.

Sad to say, Vor was nearby when Cheetah shouted "Griswel don't ye sell houses that low" and I responded "I can't help it, I'm evil,"

Vor tells me he instead heard Vithar say I had conned him and that Cheetah had said nothing.

I can't help but conclude that Vor knows Vithar and is workjing with him. since Cheetah's statement was a shout, Vor was five feet from me, and Vithar said nothing whatever.

Any suggestions on posting screenshots would be appreciated.

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

You all know me folks. I have been a member here in good standing for a long time. I always prove what I say. Here is my screen shot of the exact log as it happened. Now you can post saying he said she said..but unless you have a SS that shows mine false, I would like you to show me how mine is? I did not know you or this Vithar person until this incedent. since you are so fast to call someone a collaborator and a lier, maybe you should know Who you are accusing and have some proof exactly as I am now shoing here.



Please note that Vithar did speak contrary to griswels above statement and strangely Cheetah did not.

_________________
RP to the core!
Avian Technology and Trade
The Trade and Crafting Player Association.
May the Shrub be with you.

oh and to post your screen shot, contact Obbo in game I am sure he can store it till this is all taken care of one way or the other.

_________________
RP to the core!
Avian Technology and Trade
The Trade and Crafting Player Association.
May the Shrub be with you.

Here is how I happened across this issue. I was heading out to kill a bounty. Siric messaged me for training in Survival 3. I asked him to meet me outside the cantina. I went and, as usual, sat outside the cantina to play with my pets. I saw several shouts from a player named Vithar that were as you can see in the chat log above. I thought nothing of it as this happens quite a bit. There is always some imagined slight.

Soon, Griswel appeared, petted my ape and sat down. Shortly there after, Vithar again (as you can plainly see, and in direct opposition to griswels previous statement) shouted that Griswel had cheated him of 125k. In between that time and Griswels response there was not one word from Cheetah. (Again the log speaks for itself).

Griswels response was, "Lol" "I can't help it, I'm EVIL" (yet again the log is above.) I then sent a message on the giuild channel telling of what I had just heard. It was then and only then that someone told me that Griswel was an applicant. I must say I was shocked that I had not seen his application and was not aware of this. When I did find this out, it became doubly important that I ascertain the truth of the matter.

I spoke with Vithar and he told me that Griswel agreed to sell him a Large Naboo home for 125k. Vithar states that he did not have the credits with him and did a /tip bank amount to cover the cost. Vithar then states that Griswel dropped connection and has refused to replace his credits or produce his home.

I asked Griswel about all this. At first he was polite. I told him what my log showed (which you can all see for yourselves above) and he said that I was a liar and was working with Vithar.

I do not know the wheres and whatfors of this entire item, but thought it should be brought to the attention of the membership in general. I do not know either party and have no reason to lie in any event. Yes I am somewhat lacking in tact now and then, but I call it "calling then as I see them" but I have never Lied. I leave the issue in the hands of the membership and the DS.

_________________
RP to the core!
Avian Technology and Trade
The Trade and Crafting Player Association.
May the Shrub be with you.

Well, I've known Vor long enough to be sure he wouldn't lie to me about something like this. And the evidence is pretty damning, isn't it?

_________________

All I know is that nothing Vithar said shows on my log, and Cheetah SHOUTED her comment, so I fail to see how any bug could have caused this.

I do not know how to make a screenie show in the box, but here's the links:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/w3rd/Vithar_s_Threat.jpg

And here's my reply to Cheetah:

http://www.angelfire.com/film/w3rd/My_shout_of_evil.jpg

I don't make large houses, and I suggest that Vithar complain to CSR right away if I stole from him and he has screenshots.

Here's the deal with Vor - I was in Beta from day 1, and I have never seen any indication that there was a bug where people ten feet apart would hear different things. When I first told folks about this guy threatening to blackball me, I said "Vorath" and sent you guys an e-mail about it.

So when Vor started acting like he was backing up Vithar, and said his screenshots backed him up, I did not believe that this could be a good faith statement.

My App is up to you folks. I'll live either way, but look at the screenies, (someone repost to show easily if you know how). I obviously owe Vor an apology, as his screenies show exactly what he said they show, and he had no basis (then) to believe anything else. I can't tell you how two things could both show on the screen (or how I got such bad luck), but that's the way things are.

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

BTW, the fundamental question si whether I ripped off Vithar or not, and I don't believe that there is any reasonable view that I did. He said he would blackball me, he is trying to do that, and so far as I could tell Vor was helping him. Under the circumstances I think I both responded to Vithar in the manner he deserved, and also was pretty laid back with Vor under the circumstances, which seemed to be pretty clear that he was involved.

Vor:

Please post a link to your screenshots on the SWG form so we can get some Dev info in how this could have happened: two different conversations 10 feet apart. The link to that thread is:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/boar ... .id=196842

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

can anyone tell me how to convert these from links to easy-to-view pictures?

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

Oh, Cheetah, sorry about how my screenie got your last comment. My bad. If I'd have seen it I'd have moved the box up a little...

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

It'd probably be better to keep them as links so:
a) We don't kill those on dial-up
b) It's easier to view them side-by-side

It's safe to say that Vor and Vithar are not working together, so let's get rid of that issue first and foremost.

It certainly seems like a very odd phenomenon. Is it possible that Vor was just out of Cheetah's shout range? Not likely, but maybe.

I don't see how. He was sitting at one table outside the Cantina, I sat down at another after emoting at his monkey. We were ten feet apart.

Cheetah was inside the Cantina (and can verify the shout I was responding to), and she could not have been 40' from us. In any event, Vor's table was the one just as you exit IIRC< and mmine was the next over, so techincally he was closer to the dancefloor than I was.

Plus, how on earth does he hear the little liar and I don't?

Again, please look at the Vithar threat pic and see what I was dealing with at the time.

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

Are you referring to Vithar? You put him on ignore (if your first pic took place before the second one).

If Cheetah was in the cantina and you two were outside, you both should've seen the shout. Curious...

LOl, that's it on ignore, you're right.

Hey, Vor, were you ignoring Cheetah?

That would at least explain things, though not how I got this unlucky...

Thanks Marrok.

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

You said "you people" and "none of you." Who else did you mean?

_________________
- Wiegraf Terrik
SWG: Human Commando/Pistoleer
WoW: Dwarvish Rogue (Herbalism/Alchemy)
EQII: Alazin, High Elf Wizard

Former Section 4 Director

"Please, if anyone were to play Obi-Wan it would be me, with the 'Luke, Luke save me' and the lightsabers going 'Vvvwiinnngg, vvwinggg, vvvWING!' -- Professor Frink

That is really weird. It completely matches up except for Cheetah's shout...there's got to be some simple explanation.

_________________
- Wiegraf Terrik
SWG: Human Commando/Pistoleer
WoW: Dwarvish Rogue (Herbalism/Alchemy)
EQII: Alazin, High Elf Wizard

Former Section 4 Director

"Please, if anyone were to play Obi-Wan it would be me, with the 'Luke, Luke save me' and the lightsabers going 'Vvvwiinnngg, vvwinggg, vvvWING!' -- Professor Frink

Vor was ignoring Cheetah is all I can get, He's ignoring me now, but that is completely understandable under the circumstances.

Exar, err, Mr Kun, which "you people"? If you mean when I was laying into the lair Vithar all I can say is that I was in insult mode. The key was to make him feel small and insignificant. Doesn't happen often, but as long as he's dumping on me [for no good reason!] why not go for the gusto.

Anyway, our conversation is there, warts and all.

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

Ok, first let me say that, befor this incident, i did not know either Vor or Vithar and, after reading all the screenies i'm still confused by the whole matter of shouts and locations.

The only person i knew before was Griswel, who a twoday before, made me two solar panels at cost, that is without profit, handing him the bare resources after he made the items for me.

Here i have a few pieces to puzzle on if you all like:
1) After Griswel shouted something like "I'm selling so cheap they should tell me not to" i shouted back something in the line of "Griswell, Dont sell your houses that cheap!!!".
This was a jeste and should be considered that way.
2) I saw Vithar shouting Griswell has taken him for 125K, thus taking the matter public. I adviced Griswel to ignore him and take the matter to Avian.
3) At the time i was standing at the eastern shuttle port terminal, Keren.
4) I've read the screenies and I mis a line of my in the log. Wierd.
5) Since i knew niether Vor or Vithar i dont think i was being ignored.

Now for some logic on the real issue:
a) Griswel made me 2 solars without getting profit.
b) Griswel is selling houses and stuff at very low prices.
c) Griswel told me he has enough money.

(c) is backed up by (b) and (a) telling me that Griswel does NOT need to earn much money. Logically i do not think that he needs to scam people for 125K. Therefore i do not believe the claim.


However,
I do think that this might start to get out of control and i would like to advise very much that this matter is dealt with by the Avian board or any other independent organ in this matter.

<curtsey>
Cheetah

_________________
Core Resources - Cheetah
Bulk Energy Division
Shop at Talus (-6000 350) - Avian City Shuttle

Ah, you were at the shuttle.

Well, my tablke is slightly closer to the Shuttle than Vor's table is, just a few feet but that is probably all it was.

Again, my apologies to Vor, which I tried to send in game, but I hope you can each see why (given what I knew had been said) I could not see any way for him to be agreing with the liar Vithar and not with me.

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

BTW, scroll down near the bottom, my conversation with Armando.

He thought mineral harvesters were 15k and I corrected him and said they were 13k. Net generally the actions of a guy who steals. It's hardly proof, I think the screenshot with his threats is proof), but it's just a random slice of what I was doing that IMHO shows I operate on the up and up.

BTW, as I said on the SWG thread, when did I steal from Vithar? If I stole from him before the argument in the screenshot, why would he be arguing with me about rpices is I'd just stolen 125k from him?

If I stole from him after, how on earth is he trusting me with 125k after and argument like that?

IMHO the record is clear. The liar Vithar got mad at me because of prices, we argued, and he is trying to blackball me. His guild is looking into it, too.

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

What guild is Vithar in?

I have noone on ignore ever. I saw comments from Cheetah for several minutes while I was sitting there. I attempted to message you after I got back to say I was sorry if I sounded accusatory, but I found your email calling me a Liar and saying that I would stoop to the extremely dishonorable task of working with someone to defame someone who I don't even know. At that point I have to admit that I added you to my ignore list. I say what I mean and mean what I say. There is nothing and noone in this game or in real life that I would spare by lying to them.

When I was asked by others, and you can feel free to ask them also, Rom and Royur specifically, I stated exactly what I had in my chat log, and said that I did not know the truth of the matter. I was reporting an incident as I saw it with no preconceived judgement as to who was in the wrong.

If I sounded accusaroty I apologize for that. I will not however feel bad about reporting what I saw (at that time with the information I had) as a possible dishonorable act by an applicant to the Avian group.

I take extreme offence to the terms Liar and to being told that I would league with some other person to slander another whom I do not know. I can understand your confusion. Obviously the game is buggy. I have had people stand right next to me and be invisible and I can not hear them. I have also had people that I could hear vanish.

Even now as I said...I do not know the entire truth of the matter...there are two sides to everything.

so
Griswel, I apologize if my asking you questions and telling you what I had sounded acusatory. But you might want to learn who and what the other person is dealing with before you start slinging the term Liar around.

you all have my SS you can see what I said is what I saw. I need not defend myself when i was not in the wrong.

_________________
RP to the core!
Avian Technology and Trade
The Trade and Crafting Player Association.
May the Shrub be with you.

Guardian Companion of Clan Immortal

But the guild seems to already know about the situation from the SWG forum.

Vithar sounds like a stupid person.

Whether people were ignoring others, or if people were out of range, I do know that semi-ghosting is a possible explanation… and a real pain in the arse.

There were times yesterday when I was standing right beside people and they could see nothing of me (no spatial, no tells), I spent fifteen minutes chasing a group trying to get them to acknowledge my existence . But while I was ghosting to some, I was perfectly visible to others with no problems.

I was actually trying to ask you a question in the bank yesterday Griswel about ballot boxes (when you were getting your new clothes from Ali), but I was left standing wondering why I was being ignored . I assumed I wasn’t ghosting (oh how I know the pains of ghosting from beta) as Rho and others could see me. It was only until later that I realised what was going on.
Might explain why Raam ran straight past me without saying a word (you damn rebel! ).

Griswel, your links don't work anymore. Mail them to me and I'll host them owenc@indigo.ie

Over the past week or two, I've seen this happen quite a few times. I'm not sure if Obbo recalls it, but there was one incident where me, him, and Jarun were sitting in my camp out in front of the PA Hall. I was chating and whatnot with them for some time, then I tried talking to Jarun about a MK1 shield and he wouldn't respond. I said several other things and still neither Obbo nor Jarun would respond, which started to get frustrating . Then this Mon Cal runs in from Keren, and he starts talking to me. I use him as a go-between to talk to Obbo, and I found out that Obbo could neither see nor hear me. I relogged and all was well.

Since then, I've seen quite a few instances like this, especially since the lag has been getting bad the past week. I've seen people that were invisible but that I could hear, I've seen invisible people that I could actually target and examine, I've even had a guy walk right up to me to buy something from me, then go poof right before my eyes, and I could neither hear nor see him.

Anyway, I think this could easily explain how Griswel and Vor have conflicting logs. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Griswel's screenshot looks like the exterior of the Keren cantina. That would explain a lot, since from what I've seen Keren is one of the laggiest places on Chilastra.

_________________
Sakri Tey'vok
Creature Handler, Carbineer, Ranger

I thought I was seeing this same phenomenon last night and was able to reproduce it even just talking to myself. /tells were working just fine, but /say was not producing any result in the Spatial screen.

_________________
Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.

In case your links die again, I’ve hosted the screens on the site
http://swg-avian.net/img/Vithar_s_Threat.jpg
http://swg-avian.net/img/My_shout_of_evil.jpg

I did not rad all the posts, but do you not get an in-game eamil telling you that you did a bank transfer? If so, have this guy produce his copy.

_________________
Dalaran: Arindel - Frost Mage (Mining/Alchemy)
Dalaran: Roran - Paladin (Weaponsmith/Blacksmith)
Dalaran: Baine - Rogue

Thanks Obo, and yeah, arindal, I have said repeatedly I want this guy to file a ticket. Lying about me will not upset CS as much as lying to them.

Vor - My problem was that I could not see how anyone could have missed Cheetah's shout, and thus I believed you had heard it, and drew my conclusions from that. I can see why you believed what you believed given what was on your screen. I have apologized, and I apologize again, but I'd ask that you look at what information was available to me and see if you can understand why I believed what I did given what was on my screen.

Even now, frankly, the odds of all this stuff falling into place the way it did boggles my mind.

One last thing: it amazes me, sitting here now, to think how much this mattered to me yesterday.

_________________
I am Griswel, I know all. (jk)

after reading all three screenshots. i can see how each would show two different sets of messages due to the fact that Vithar was placed on ignore in Griswels screenshots but not in Vor's. if you put in all the stuff that Vithar said on vor's SS into Griswel's SS. it is very clear.

I also recieved an e-mail from griswel about Vithar making false accusations. the other thing is, no where in any of griswels sales pitchs did he even mention selling large houses. and he's been useing that same sales pitch for well over a week now.

As for the thing between Vor and Griswel. it was just a misunderstanding on griswels part and hopefully it can get worked out between the two of them in private. so no need for that to even be considered as far as i'm concerned.

anyways, thats my 2 credits on the subject hehe

Jarun Thaks Section 2

Apology accepted sir and you have mine as well if ( and ai have said it before) I sounded accusatory. Misunderstandings occur.

_________________
RP to the core!
Avian Technology and Trade
The Trade and Crafting Player Association.
May the Shrub be with you.

Yay!

Now if you only you would've said it like:

"Apology...accepted... Captain Griswel." (w/ breath mask and James Earl Jones in mind)

_________________
- Wiegraf Terrik
SWG: Human Commando/Pistoleer
WoW: Dwarvish Rogue (Herbalism/Alchemy)
EQII: Alazin, High Elf Wizard

Former Section 4 Director

"Please, if anyone were to play Obi-Wan it would be me, with the 'Luke, Luke save me' and the lightsabers going 'Vvvwiinnngg, vvwinggg, vvvWING!' -- Professor Frink

/grouphug

_________________
Romsuiag (Brad)
Former and Third President of Avian