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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:21 pm 
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It wasn't denied thats like saying no immediatly is was really just saying that I might not fit in here unless your saying its not, but then my entire arguement above would well be valid.

:) Choose your words carefully

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:45 pm 
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Delsana, in case you didn't notice, I'm the current Chairman of the Board of Directors, which the group of folks who decided the fate of your application. I believe that I just might know whether or not an application was denied. Believe me when I tell you for a fact - the application was denied.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:45 pm 
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So should you. I could not make sense of that last post at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:55 am 
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Then everything ive said this whole post is still standing and the argument is back! And once again I will fight for justice because as I've said their was no actual reason.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:42 am 
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Delsana, did you perhaps miss this post? If you did, please review at your convenience. If you did not miss the post, read it again for retention and further comprehension. If further protests are going to be made about the denial of your application, the Board of Directors may be begin discussion about the possible revocation of your posting privileges on our website.

Cyrus Rex wrote:
Charter 2.1.5) Application for Membership wrote:
Applications are submitted to the Board of Directors for review. The Applicant must receive a majority vote from the Board for him or her to be accepted into Avian. Upon acceptance, new members will be placed in Sections in accordance with the Policy for Inactive and New Members.



Quite frankly you did not get a majority vote. Many reasons surfaced that caused directors to vote “No” on your application, I will detail my reasons further down my post. I enjoyed your activity, and enjoyed the application you submitted, but the substance of many of your posts worried me to the point were I knew your application into Avian would not be the normal walk in the park.

Specific areas of Concern:

  1. Abundant communication issues: These are forums, were members communicate with each other. We do not post to hear ourselves post, we pass on information and enjoy each others company. The notion that you would totally disregard the readability of your posts indicates carelessness, lack of respect for your audience, lack of effort, and in my opinion a lack of maturity. It is one thing to make errors in-game or in chat, but it is another thing to disregard the legibility of your own posts. If the purpose is to communicate, what have you accomplished if your posts are illegible or incomprehensible?

    Battle-net patrons did not get their bad reputation by being grammatically correct. In the gaming community, it is acceptable to abbreviate, and use shortcuts in-game, but the overwhelming majority of our Avian members make forum post in a fashion where everyone can read and comprehend them. Reading each others posts should not be tasking, and we the members of Avian do not want our forums looking like Battle-net chat.
  2. Abundant inaccurate statements: Concerning WoW and even beyond, it seemed like every other post by you was an inaccurate, incorrect, imposable statement. Could this have been an extension of the communication issue above?.... yes, but the abundance of these statements were too much to be ignored. I felt like you were too boastful to the point that it was annoying. Many of the claims you made seemed impossible and called into the question of your honestly. If you were going to fabricate the truth on simple things that do not matter, then how could you be trusted to be honest about things that do matter such as guild transaction and member interaction? We have an air of honesty and trust inside of Avian, the enjoyment of our guild mandates that we strive to continue that air.

    • Your post saying “… if i did make another char i could make a level 20 in 5 hours” seemed to fly in the face of the fact that your Characters were all in the range of being a standard casual player. If you are so capable, why are your characters average?
    • 23 (REST 20 Levels) Human Affliction Warlock – Mirithun” is another line by you attempting to indicate that your character has 20 levels of rest. In WoW it is impossible to have more than 1.5 levels of built up rest. Either your game knowledge is poor, or your attempts at impressing me have backfired.
    • Posts such as “On the contrary i have several level 60's from beta…” followed up by “In beta i created characters on this account…” indicate a lack of beta/live understanding. More so they smell of false bravado. The facts are that you currently can not have characters from beta, and your beta characters could not have been created on your existing account. Whether you were in beta or not is not the problem, the problem is the inaccuracy of your statements.

  3. Miscellaneous Problems: Beyond the inaccurate statements and lack of acceptable communication skills, the overall attitude exhibited by you did not seem to blend well with most Avians. Your sharing of a beta account (not allowed by Blizzard) is not the standard value set most Avians have. Your relative lack of patience as even admitted by you, “Patience ... heh not one of my favorite things”, indicated a personality that would not work well in our Organization which can be rather slow and meticulous.


Conclusion:
When considering the above three Specific areas of concern, I had a bad feeling about your admittance into Avian. After reviewing the information, holding a few private discussions, and conducting a poll of my section it was evident that I would have to vote “no” on your application into Avian.

Our Player Association has been around for 4 years, and in that time we have turned down more applications than we would have liked. Some of our directors have become a good judge of character, and we can sometimes spot a confrontation before it starts. Your behavior post-rejection has strengthened my opinion of my decision to reject your application.

I wish you no ill will, and I honestly hope you can find a good guild to call home. As a longstanding member of Avian, I feel I can honestly say that based on the time and material you have provided, you would be happier in another guild more inline you’re your personality and gaming ways.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:16 pm 
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I read it and it doesn't say i was denied it says what i said it did but now that your changing things around you have brung my arguement back and if revoke of posting privalages helps me show justice and fairness and that I stick to my thoughts then so be it but pulling that up further compliments my post that you so rudely, and calmly attacked

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:18 pm 
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Delsana,

I have to ask, what do you expect to gain by ‘fighting’ this decision? The rules on applications are quite simple; you apply, you are either accepted or rejected, and that decision is final. There is no right to appeal the decision by our rules, but there is the opportunity to reapply again after a certain time, if you so wish.

You are 100% not going to get this particular decision changed.
But if you did somehow miraculously manage to get those who make these decisions to reconsider, the way you are constantly butting heads against them means the result would most definitely not go in your favour.

You do not have to be provided with a reason, but out of common courtesy some Directors have given you some indications why they have voted a certain way. I’d ask you to accept that for what it is.
All these application questions, the requesting interaction with our community etc. all come down to one thing; does it prove to the Directors, and the members they represent, that you would fit in with our community?
Ultimately, they decided that they don’t think you would fit in. Sometimes that just isn’t a quantifiable thing.
I’m going to be blunt and say, that’s that, accept it, deal with it.

In the face of all that, I consider your continual campaign on this issue to be borderline trolling, and if it continues any further I will lock this thread and seriously consider your posting privileges to this site.

You are welcome to continue to post in the rest of the public forums. If we have misjudged you, help us to get to know you better.
But remember, we are a closed community and you are here as a guest, and as such are subject to our rules on this site.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:56 pm 
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Delsana, you are correct that my post does not say you were denied, it says why I voted against your application into Avian. However several posts above Talon’s clear English statement says you were denied in no equivocal terms.

Being that Avian is our PA, you are in no position to dictate to us anything. We are a representative democracy and the majority of the BoD voted you down. The majority of the section I represent did not like what they saw in you. I am not about to jeopardize their fun and enjoyment for a person with your traits. You only get so many chances to make an impression… and you made a poor one. Your application was good, but your conduct afterward marks you as the type of personality that many of us do not want to have to deal with day after day.

We love this place, and it is the BoD’s obligation to protect our place from firebrand agitators. Your actions have revealed your true personality, and it is one that will not mesh well with our existing member base. That is that.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:16 pm 
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Delsana,

You have been told that you are welcome to remain as a guest. We, the Board of Directors, as the governing body of this Player Association, have decided, as is our power here, that we do not want to make you a member. This decision was final, and was without malice.

Your staying on as a Guest is with certain conditions, however. Just like all of our guests we expect you to handle yourself with civility toward our members, and other guests. We expect you to not impede our members or guests ability to enjoy themselves. And we expect you to accept any decisions our governing body shall make.

You were welcome to question the reason your application was denied. You have asked us why, and we have answered. To that extent your questioning in this thread is complete. If you wish to question anybody further I ask that it be done civily, via Private Message (PM). And if they answer your PM and ask you not to PM any further then please obey them. Our rules of conduct apply to Private Messages as well as the public and private forums.

You were not discriminated against due to Age, Gender or any other factor. Your application was reviewed with the same scrutiny we review all applications with.

At this point I ask that all conversation in this thread be ended by all parties.

You are still welcome to post on our public forums at this point, so please do not make us change our minds about that as well.

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Robert
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