Avian Gamers Network

I think I am going to let myself investigate WoW this weekend. I have read some of the official websites, and I will try to absorb all that I can this weekend. But really if SWG taught one thing, it taught me this: Take everything a company promises about its product with extreme skepticism. Don't bother telling me how great blizzard is: two years ago we said the same thing about the dream team working on SWG.

In SWG it was the unhappy beta testers that leaked information concerning the game that had the best grasp on the product SOE was offering. It was Ravange’s FTP site, and Amy’s beta information that clued me in on the real skinny of SWG. It was those future customers that hit the nail on the head with their commentary… morally agree or disagree with their actions, they were the ones who were the most honest to me and to the community concerning which promises SWG delivered as a game, and what promises it did not deliver.

So while I take in all the text provided by Blizzard, I really would rather hear from you guys, my Avian friends, and potentially paying customers. In all likely hood, if I make the switch from SWG to WOW, I will want to continue to play with the friends I have found here in this forum. And over the years it is your commentary and wisdom that I honor the most.

• I would like to know what you see in WoW that you like better than SWG, and what you see in SWG that you like better than WoW.
  
• I would like to know what races, classes, and play styles you are most interested in… and why.
  
• Would you like to continue on as a crafter, as we were in SWG, or would you like to take on more of an Adventuring Role in WoW?
  
• If there is a Avian community carried over to WoW do you see it as needing to be more crafting focused, or more Adventure focused, of a balance of both.
  
• What fansites do you use for good information?

That is all the questions that I can think of now, but feel free to express other factors that you find compelling.

Like many of us I have looked at WoW. But I keep coming back to the same point. I like SWG.
I know it has problems, I know it has tons of issues and I don't trust teh devs father than I can throw them but there is something about the game I like. I realize that 'something' may very well be its pure potential - of which may never be realized - but it is there.

I guess I just don't want to go into a fantasy game. SWG is realy to me, yes we have creatures etc etc but its not fantasy and say what you will but I do not see it as a 'Hack-N-Slash' either.

Things I like:
I love the Skill point system. This one thing alone could keep me with SWG. I don't know if WoW has it and if it doesn't then everything else is a tough sell to me.

I like collecting things (obviously). I like the loot, yes it could be so much better but I like it. Wow probably will have better loot.

I really enjoy crafting hundreds of items . I love to decorate within SWG. If Wow doesn't not have furniture (and lots of it) it is a hard sell.

Things I dont like:
Well probably the same as everyone else, bugs, balance, boring missions no realy quests etc etc etc.

I am willing to try out WoW but I must say it will be a tough sell to me unless my likes are not only meet but exceeded. I will read up on the Crafting side of WoW. I am sure the combay side will be fine but I need to look into it more.

As for what I would play. Well I just enjoy bith sides to much so I woudl probably do a duel account (if SCS) and make a furniture crafter and a warroir that goes around finding the stuff. I have no interest in making armor or weapons so if I can't crafts decorative goods I doubt I will craft at all.

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Moge

That's true and I think we can honestly rely on the current alpha and beta testers to be pretty blunt about the game. I remember the beta testers certainly were about SWG and remember very clearly how surprised the Beta community was when the release date was revealed.
Take a look at this thread from the World of Warcraft Community site. Alphas and Betas are dropping in with very brief but positive comments about the state of the game as it is. I didn't read all of the posts but this one caught my eye.

Hmm...

Anyway, to your questions:

• I would like to know what you see in WoW that you like better than SWG, and what you see in SWG that you like better than WoW.

WoW pluses:
1) Purely from a genre point of view, I'm kinda sick of sci-fi and am ready for some good ol' hack-n-slash!
2) As far as more concrete things, I'm very pleased with the level of communication I've seen from Blizzard that is, to hear the alpha testers talk about it, so much more than the devs nodding their heads and doing what they intended to anyway.
3) I have so much more faith in Blizzard than SOE. Their game philosophy puts fun first and they have an absolutely amazing track record in their games. Show me a Blizzard stinker.
4) Death Management: the way managing death is shaping up seems very positive to me. No item decay, no item loss. You basically have three options, none of which are absolutely terrible. First option (penalty is traveling back to your body - don't worry, it's not like a regular corpse run): Travel, in your ghostly form (they're hoping to even put a few missions in that can only be played by ghosts!) back to your body, reincorporate and you're back to normal, no penalties. Second option (penalty is resurrection sickness): Wait until a party member or generous player resurrects your body. If you are already enroute as a ghost, you may still be resurrected by simply agreeing to let the resurrection continue. Third option (penalty is experience loss): talk to a Spirit Healer and be resurrected by him. You get all your stuff back but lose a little XP. If you just achieved a level, you will not lose that level - you will incur an experience debt, which must be paid off before you can make progress towards your next level.

5) ... Ok...I'd better stop but having played a fair bit of EQ and SWG, there were a number of things that both games had wrong. WoW seems to have them right.

SWG pluses:
1) C'mon...it's Star Wars!! More on this later.

2) The variety of professions was impressive!

3) Graphics are beautiful!

4) Like Cyrus, I loved the powerful macros we have in SWG! From mounting/dismounting a vehicle to adding some RP flavor to slicing for customers, the macros in SWG could really deliver.

• I would like to know what races, classes, and play styles you are most interested in… and why.

I have a number of character ideas in mind and since WoW is a MCS game (8 characters I think), it won't break me to try them all on and see which I like best. A dwarf paladin is my current first choice, a gnomish warlock is my second and a human of some sort (still unsure warrior vs. rogue).

I've always like the role and skill set of paladins and after reading a bit more about them I know that's the first class I will explore.

• Would you like to continue on as a crafter, as we were in SWG, or would you like to take on more of an Adventuring Role in WoW?

Crafting will be a support activity for me. I plan on focusing on the adventure aspect of my character.

• If there is a Avian community carried over to WoW do you see it as needing to be more crafting focused, or more Adventure focused, of a balance of both.

It may be possible for a community of tradespeople to thrive in WoW but as I mentioned above, I'd be much more interested in seeing Avian's presence in WoW as a blend of adventuring and crafting, probably stronger on the adventuring.

• What fansites do you use for good information?

World of Warcraft Official site, World of Warcraft Community site, World of Warcraft Lands and Kingdoms of Azeroth. Oh...oops..."fansites." Bah, too much work to just delete it.

I mentioned above I wanted to follow up on my comment "C'mon...it's Star Wars!!" I'd like to do that now. Cool as it is, that we're running around in the SW world, I strongly suspect that contributed to some of the disappointment people felt with the game. I say that because of this: before SWG, our primary source of interaction with the SW universe was the movies and books, primarily. Some people played paper games and there were some awesome single-player (or at least small-scale MP games). So, that means the environment that we expected was defined by movie sets and actors and a whole lot of CG stuff. No problem. They have the look down very well in SWG, I believe.

However, one of the other ingredients we absorbed in the movies was the 'feel' of SW. While watching Han and Luke and Leia do their thing, wherever that might be, I was always acutely aware there was something bigger going on. I don't feel that in the game. In the past, I'd simply felt like I was some drone doing his thing to rack up the credits or XP or whatever.

I think bringing to life a universe that resembles that of SW really wasn't that difficult. But putting me in that reality, the reality previously defined for me through movies, books and games is nearly impossible. I mention games since in those games, they were able to focus on just a small slice of that reality and were able to pull it off. In SWG, they have to make that reality real everywhere for everyone all the time. I have the same fears and concerns for MEO.

Now...compare all that to WoW. How is WarCraft defined for us? Simply through games. We're assured there is a reality that exists beyond what we see in those games (cutscenes, storylines) but we're not immersed in it and therefore our expectations are more in line with what is possible for the developers to deliver.

Ok...I'll be done for now.

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Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.

I think Rocklar is dead on on why SWG has lost most of its appeal for me. Certainly there are a lot of negatives in the game, as was pointed out, but the main reason is that there is nothing to really combat those negatives. Being in the Star Wars universe should be the biggest positive the game has. But instead, it has become a liability.

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Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

I have been in SWG shorter than most of you, I play less and I still have not seen all the planets in SWG, for example (often for RP reasons, because I really like to RP). Yet I am looking forward to WoW.

• I would like to know what you see in WoW that you like better than SWG, and what you see in SWG that you like better than WoW.
  
  What I like about SWG:
  
  • Variable crafting system. I still often play around with the different effects experimentation and different resources have on the completed product.
  • Graphics are amazing.
  • Huge planets.
  • Community tools. I love the ingame email and the ability to drop off stuff at people's vendors. That's really important for an off-peaktime player like me.
  • Macros They make your life easier in so many ways, I cannot even start to describe.
  What I don't like about SWG:
  
  • The grind. I hate grinding, and that's part of the reason I still have not mastered any profession but Merchant (App XP is the other part)
  • Planets are mostly empty terrain that you need to cross in order to get the interesting spots. In one of the RPG titles I helped make we had limited terrain that still felt like a large area because of clever topology and lots of content. Most of this approach has been thorwon out in SWG when they decided to make everything passable terrain. In SWG I only need to point my bike in the direction of the blue arrow pointing to my destiniation and hit autorun, and barring a harvester in my path, I can spend the whole travel time AFK or chatting with Avians.
  • Shallow missions
  I didn't list "It's Star Wars" in either list, because it's a balance of good and bad. many of the most iconic stuff in SWG is only inanimate backdrop, and not used in any captivating way.
  
  What I like about World of Warcraft
  
  • Graphics. This is what they shown off the most, so far, and I like the Warcraft semi-cartoonish way much better than the increasing "realism" of many current MMOGs (Lineage 2 may be the worst offender in that regard)
  • The sheer amount of content. And this means not only promised content, but also based on what current testers have reported. You almost always have more than one quest in your questlog and have something to work towards.
  • It's by Blizzard! I have yet to see a Blizzard game without a good amount of polish. All the classes currently being tested are fun and mostly balanced. Nothing like the start of SWG Beta.
  What I don't like about World of Warcraft
  
  • Combat-centric gameplay
  • I have seen nothing yet to help off-peaktime players keep in contact with the rest of the world.
  • I am not in Beta!
  
  However, people that were in WoW before Beta have started to complain about the Beta players how they are all boorish, rude, crass, belligerent, killstealing campers. If this holds true for the WoW community it might keep me away from WoW, as it keeps me away from BattleNet. "BNetter" has started to become an insult in WoW.
  
• I would like to know what races, classes, and play styles you are most interested in… and why.
  
  I like classes that are easy to solo, but then Blizzard has promised that all classes will solo equally well. So far the testers have confirmed this. With MCS I'll most likely try out several classes, starting with a Dwarven Hunter and probably a Undead Warlock.
  
• Would you like to continue on as a crafter, as we were in SWG, or would you like to take on more of an Adventuring Role in WoW?
  
  In WoW there is no strong choice for one side or the other. Every crafter needs to fight in order to advance and craft better. That said I want to try out some crafting in WoW as well, or at least support other crafters by gathering ingredients for them.At the moment Herbalism and Mining look pretty interesting. Maybe I'll try out some more tradeskills and turn them back in later.
  
• If there is a Avian community carried over to WoW do you see it as needing to be more crafting focused, or more Adventure focused, of a balance of both.
  
  I think in WoW there still is need for some interdependence in order to craft the best stuff that needs ingredients from fishermen, blacksmiths, miners and engineers. However, the way to acquire those ingredients is mostly adventuring. The best ores are found deep down in dungeons. The best fishing spots are also found in dangerous territory. I think it will balance out automatically. This is one game where we really might need a Security Wing, like an Avian bodyguard group.
  
• What fansites do you use for good information?
  
  I get most of my information from World of Warcraft Official site, World of Warcraft Community site, World of Warcraft Stratics.

Edward
makes his 3500th post his longest post EVAR!

• I would like to know what races, classes, and play styles you are most interested in… and why.

So far I think I am liking the strategies of the Rogue class. Setting up move combos and assisting with crowd control sounds like something I would like to try out. All the past Rogues I have played were not very fulfilling. Either there were not enough obstacles to use their skills, or they were just too weak for my liking. These Rogues seem different.

One thing I am not too crazy about is they are the best damage dealers… which makes them a prime target for a nerf. I like being able to hand out damage, but I sure hope they do not end up being the target of nerf attacks. From what I have read Blizzard has Rogues set up the way they want them. Their reasoning is that Rogues forgo the Armor that Warriors enjoy, so they get to deal out more damage.

As far as Races… I am thinking of not being a human. Being a Dwarf has a warm place in my hart, but I am not so crazy about being a Dwarf Rogue. To me Dwarves live in thigh clans, are lawful, stubborn yet social. A rogue to me is less lawfull and more of a loner, or if not lower part of a criminal underground.

Gnomes still seem a bit too child like… but they are rapidly warming up to me.

I will have to work through my mental barriers.




My wife is looking into being a Elf Hunter... but we shall see.