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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:06 am 
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dbakke wrote:
I canceled my all access pass. I'm a bit dillusioned with MMO's atm and will probably not play another unless a large group on the boards get involved with one.


DDO Stress test this weekend :twisted:

Im a sucker for new games. Many I get just to play for a week or two knowing that they will never been long term games. CoH/Cov/SWG and all the betas I can play. I just like getting into new games and checking out what they did and how they did it. For this reason alone I'll play SWG-NGE at least for a few days until my sub is up.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:25 am 
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dbakke wrote:
I canceled my all access pass. I'm a bit dillusioned with MMO's atm and will probably not play another unless a large group on the boards get involved with one.

like WOW?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:13 am 
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I played WoW for about a month or two and it was ok. It didn't grab me though.

I'd be interested to hear how DDO is diff than WoW and SWG. The little that I beta'ed Auto Assault didn't capture my imagination either.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:11 am 
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iJasonT wrote:
This is going live tomorrow!

Well glad that they had plenty of testing time to you know, umm I don't know...fix all the conversion bugs that the boards are screaming about.

It's kinda funny though. While people are bitching they have all just resolved themselves to the fact that this is the game and the game will do what the game will do.

oh well...

Actually, from what I hear, this has been tested in depth internally for a long time now. They have been working on this in secret for a while, and only used the Test Center test to make sure it integrated into a live database properly. (which is the real reason they didn't use the Frogs)

I expect the bugs they have in the game will get fixed rather quickly. It sounds like they didn't get enough traffic on TC to properly track and fix the issues so they chose to move it live so they can fix the bugs quicker than keeping it in TC for another month. (this is just what I gather from seeing the different comments from Devs, so I may be wrong, but it looks like the events surrounding this Revamp support this interpretation)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:49 am 
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Well I've been playing it for a bit now and to be honest it is not horrible.

Moge is a Smuggler and to me that is the best combat profession there is. Not much to smuggle but combat is good since EVERYONE is a freak'n Jedi I can easily win in duals and PVP.

Maili is an Elder Jedi and to be honest Melee in the game blows. With Ranged and Melee alike there are tracking issues since you cannot lock onto a target. All they need to do is run into a crowd and you can no longer follow them. if a MOB runs into the lair you cannot attack it as you will hit the lair but it can attack you. If it is a ranged MOB/NPC you cannot just run a bit back as it will just stand there and fire at you while you are helpless to bring it down.

Fix tracking and it -may- be a decent game.

I also am starting to believe there rumors of the PS3 SWG. The game is almost simple enough for it to work on a Console.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:38 pm 
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How sad if they've dumbed down the game for a console because they couldn't get it right for the PC.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:53 pm 
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dbakke wrote:
How sad if they've dumbed down the game for a console because they couldn't get it right for the PC.


This is one of my biggest reasons for hating consoles. Yes, it's ok to hate them, they're not people. :) The idea of simplifying a PC game so it works on a console is sooo backwards. The PC is a multi-function device. A console is a single-function device. You'd think it would do it's job better. Ah well.

/end threadjack, tirade

I'm going to keep my eyes open for any "please give us another change" notes from SOE as I'd like to see what the new implementation feels like.

Oh, and as for...
Master Gui-Jan wrote:
I expect the bugs they have in the game will get fixed rather quickly.

Go back and read that part a couple more times. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:31 pm 
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lol.

Yeah, that was pretty funny.

However, I do think they will get the major bugs fixed rather quickly this time. This "Revamp" is clearly an acknowledgement that they need to do something fast and drastic to save this game. With that mentality I think they will throw all of their resources into getting it up to their exceptional and familiar low standards very quickly.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:28 pm 
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Howdy folks,

There is no console version of SWG planned.



Sorry.

Brenlo Bixiebopper
Director, Global Community Relations - SOE

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:43 pm 
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iJasonT wrote:
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Howdy folks,

There is no console version of SWG planned.



Sorry.

Brenlo Bixiebopper
Director, Global Community Relations - SOE


so its been dumbed down to this level in an attempt to interest a younger crowd then? or because the devs are incompetent to manage and complete such a large scale game?

Im not bitter... :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:43 am 
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You know a sign that the apocalypse is upon them: when you see Google adds for 10 million credits costing you $20 bucks. That's nuts.

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Well, I finally realized I wan't actually using my specials... and started to use them last night...

Combat was much more fun, hehe...

But the game that I loved at one point in the past is gone forever.

Its like you hear your ex from back in the day, that you were nuts about back then, before she stepped on your heart... is back in town, and is a better person.

Then you go to meet them for lunch, and you find out they had a sex change and they are now a biker that worships Satan.

Yeah, Satan worshipping bikers can be pretty cool, but not when you remember it used to be a hot brunette you couldn't get enough of....

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:23 am 
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Mantison Tau'rus wrote:
Its like you hear your ex from back in the day, that you were nuts about back then, before she stepped on your heart... is back in town, and is a better person.

Then you go to meet them for lunch, and you find out they had a sex change and they are now a biker that worships Satan.

Yeah, Satan worshipping bikers can be pretty cool, but not when you remember it used to be a hot brunette you couldn't get enough of....


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:42 am 
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Mantison Tau'rus wrote:
Its like you hear your ex from back in the day, that you were nuts about back then, before she stepped on your heart... is back in town, and is a better person.

Then you go to meet them for lunch, and you find out they had a sex change and they are now a biker that worships Satan.

Yeah, Satan worshipping bikers can be pretty cool, but not when you remember it used to be a hot brunette you couldn't get enough of....

D@%&! That would be perfect for my signature if it wasn't too long.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:37 pm 
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Hiya guys, just dropping in to see whats up. Was happy to hook up with Moge and do some missions with Maili before D-day hit SWG. Jedi is a joke now and so Ive been trying spy with Eriant. Seems you have to do mustafar quests to level up ANY profs. You can kill animals as like the old grind but it takes forever. I thought they would add some really cool content for spies, like spy missions and such. My account runs out Dec 1 and its onward to a new game for me. For now Ill be messing around with my spy prof and then put the S'erolf Bros in long lasting carbonite freeze. Take care all :)

E

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Great to hear from you E!! I've missed going on those jedi sprees with ya, even if my jedidom was short lived).

Any thoughts of joining our flock in WoW? We are just getting a presence going on the Horde side of things with many lower levels characters running around. Would always welcome you in there!

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Hiya K!!! yeah i miss hanging with ya :( Well my run with jedi was interesting. I spent alot of time grinding to full temp, then once I reached it, had fun doing quests and helping freinds grind there jedi and of course fighting bhs.

I had ordered WoW last month actually, but i cancelled it cause I decided to at least try out the mustafar xpack. The xpack quests were alot of fun and i started to find a renewed interest in the game but then this NGE was just too much to brush aside and stay on any longer. My wife wants to buy me WoW as a xmas gift, but i wont start any accounts until after the holidays if she does...I cant open it until xmas :( hehe

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:36 am 
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well that's no fun! Buy WoW yourself and get Civ4 as a present! By then maybe they'll have the MP bugs worked out and patched hehe. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:20 am 
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Just saw this comic. I thought it was kinda fitting with the discussion here.

http://www.gucomics.com/archives/view.php?cdate=20051110

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:22 pm 
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That comic seems to sum it all up. Its simply a travesty what they did to my favorite game. What they have been doing to it really.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:22 pm 
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The old SWG that some of us tried on beta and the rest of us dreamed about has been dead for a long time. A new SWG has risen only to pour sceptism in our minds

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:29 pm 
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Order 66
Some time ago, I wrote here at Terra Nova that MMOGs really don't get a "do-over", that later changes to the game almost necessarily sit on top of old mechanics, that design is cumulative.

The live management team for Star Wars: Galaxies set out to prove me wrong with their "combat upgrade" and "Jedi revamp" a while back, and I watched with some interest. I couldn't see how they planned to change the rest of the game at the same time as the combat upgrade, given how tight the interdependencies of the game were. In fact, I predicted on the official SWG forum that any serious attempt to realize the ambitions of the combat revamp was going to take a major rethinking of the entire profession system and crafting along with it.

I was closer to the mark than I would have guessed: the live management team recently and with breathtaking suddenness announced and then pushed to live a massive overhaul of the entire game, the so-called "New Game Enhancement" or NGE. Unfortunately, the live management team seems to have ignored another long-standing criticism of SWG by many observers: that their design and implementation process is a disastrous mess. Never more so than with the NGE: whatever it is conceptually, in practice, it's roughly on par with an alpha build of a MMOG.

Or did they ignore it? It's just possible that SWG's latest flaming car wreck resulted from deliberately driving over a cliff.

I'm normally deeply suspicious of conspiracy theories. In the case of SWG's NGE, though, there are really only two possibilities: that there is a deeper agenda or that the live management team is well beyond cluelessly self-destructive, out in some outer void of fecklessness.

The basic scheme of the NGE aims to grapple with some of the longest-standing criticisms of SWG, many of which I've agreed with since the game went live: that the game lacks a compelling connection to its licensed fiction, that its sprawling design is hampered by serious game-mechanical contradictions, that its content is threadbare, and so on. In essence, what the NGE did is collapse the existing quasi-skill-based profession structure into nine "iconic" classes designed with the films in mind, any of which can be chosen at character creation (including Jedi). Combat has been remade into a twitch-based FPS style, more like Unreal Tournament than a MMOG: character skills and quality or type of weaponry and armor matter very little now. Combat and movement have been dramatically speeded up. Though crafting is technically still part of the game, it has been in effect deleted as it no longer matters in any respect.

In essence, the NGE removed the "virtual world" portion of the game, the one continuing virtue that the old design still had, the one asset or accomplishment of SWG that drew what was left of its player base. My critique of SWG in the recent Game Studies was written before the combat upgrade, and so in many respects was obsolete, but the one thing about it that I thought was still current was its assessment of SWG as the most "world-like" of existing MMOGs. Now it's the least world-like, rather more like Planetside in its conception.

Which might actually have been an interesting approach to designing a Star Wars MMOG if it had been taken back in 2001. At the least, it might actually have gone through a reasonably good process of design and testing. The NGE as it stands makes the bugginess of SWG just after its launch look relatively tame by comparison. The new version of the game is evidently a bubbling stew of bugs, incompatibilities, indigestible chunks of the old design and mechanics, and very poorly thought out implementations. Speeding up the combat and movement, for example, sounds like a good idea until you actually see it, in tandem with the new UI. It looks bad (certainly it doesn't look "Star Warsy") and at the moment plays worse: it's not a FPS, it's not a MMOG, it's not anything. Almost everyone with any knowledge of SWG has been watching the NGE with horror after it has gone live.

The reason why the general consensus is so negative is not necessarily deep-seated hostility to the design ideas behind it. I applaud the courage and gutsiness behind trying to completely redo a live game. Like f13's schild, I think there's some reason to think a twitch-based combat design on top of a virtual world design might be really interesting. Certainly with the introductory quest, the SWG live management is trying hard to think about how to make the game feel "Star Warsy". Partial as I am to Raph Koster's virtual-world ambitions in SWG, you could make a good case for SWG as a Planetside game instead.

The problem is that SWG's chief problem from the beginning has been poor implementation, poor communication, poor service. Koster's design ideas went wrong when they got awkwardly stitched in late Beta to counterposing designs, when the center could not hold. They went wrong when they went live in a horribly unfinished state, with an underresourced live management team desperately trying to keep a very leaky ship afloat. The NGE doesn't reverse any of those problems: it exacerbates them a thousandfold. A massive change to a game whose remaining loyalists were mostly devotees of the "virtual world" aspects of the design was pushed abruptly and brusquely into live in a state that's almost non-functional. And as usual, the corporate talk emanating from SOE about the consequences of the change is mindlessly, painfully out of touch with the reality. "Only a small minority of forum die-hards are objecting to the change" is the mantra at SOE. "No, we've only lost a few subscriptions". This I think, I have to believe, has got to be a lie, or at least a Bill-Clintonesque legal parsing of the word "few".

The only way this all makes sense is that SOE has decided it would rather lose most of its remaining playerbase in order to clear the way for some possible inrush of new players. I think they have to know that most current MMOG players wouldn't touch SWG with a forty-foot lightsaber given its reputation, and the NGE isn't exactly helping that. So where are the new players? World of Warcraft demonstrated that new people can be drawn to the market--I was sort of astonished a few months back when a colleague of mine who had never shown any interest in computer games at all asked me if I knew about this game "World of Warcraft" that she and her daughter were playing and enjoying. But I don't think any of those new players would come to SWG until the NGE redesign settles down to something vaguely resembling playability, which might be never.

SWG players know this too, so many of them suspect that this is not about the PC market at all, but the console market instead. Is SWG-NGE a test bed for a PS3 or even X-Box 360 implementation? That strikes me as just possible. It's about the only way this whole thing makes any sense at all, and even so, it seems to me to be further evidence of serious disarray inside SOE in the wake of Blizzard's resounding success with WoW, that they're willing to further sully their reputation among PC gamers in order to aim for a highly speculative, possibly non-existent console market for MMOGs.

Afterthought: one other line of speculation out there is that the NGE is coming from LucasArts, not SOE. The details of their collaboration in SWG have always been murky: I have no way to assess this rumor in this case. Anybody with more information than me who isn't under an NDA is welcome to speculate here.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:17 pm 
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nice article. Do you have a link to it?

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Last edited by iJasonT on Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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iJasonT wrote:
nice article. Do you have a like to it?

link :-)

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http://terranova.blogs.com/


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dbakke said:

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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:28 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

smells like a planetside / EQ2 hybrid...


I couldn't agree more... :wink:

I actually have not seen, or logged into, the game with the new NGE code. But, I do have some morbid fascination of signing up for the 10 day trial to subject myself to this abomination.

LucasArts should dump SOE no matter the cost and hire Blizzard to re-write the whole damn thing. While I don't play WoW anymore, and only did for about a month, I didn't quit because of poor game play, lack of content, etc...it just wasn't my style. Plus I still had SWG / EQ2 accounts which are both now cancelled.

I may try WoW again before its all over, but SWG is worse than a thalidomide baby and what other MMO's are out there?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:48 pm 
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dbakke wrote:
dbakke said:

I actually have not seen, or logged into, the game with the new NGE code. But, I do have some morbid fascination of signing up for the 10 day trial to subject myself to this abomination.


Dont do it! Save yourself the heartbreak and grief of seeing the dead body before its ready for the funeral. Its akin to seeing your daughter off to college and saying goodbye, only to come back and find her a crack whore in prison! :cry:

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Erime S'erolf wrote:
dbakke wrote:
dbakke said:

I actually have not seen, or logged into, the game with the new NGE code. But, I do have some morbid fascination of signing up for the 10 day trial to subject myself to this abomination.


Dont do it! Save yourself the heartbreak and grief of seeing the dead body before its ready for the funeral. Its akin to seeing your daughter off to college and saying goodbye, only to come back and find her a crack whore in prison! :cry:


Aye.... SWG is a fallen game.... spare yourself from the pain and horror....


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Sel Arin wrote:
Erime S'erolf wrote:
dbakke wrote:
dbakke said:

I actually have not seen, or logged into, the game with the new NGE code. But, I do have some morbid fascination of signing up for the 10 day trial to subject myself to this abomination.


Dont do it! Save yourself the heartbreak and grief of seeing the dead body before its ready for the funeral. Its akin to seeing your daughter off to college and saying goodbye, only to come back and find her a crack whore in prison! :cry:


Aye.... SWG is a fallen game.... spare yourself from the pain and horror....


and money.....

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Tried it, hated it. Now I mourn for the game that it could have been.

Oh well. Maybe I'll try Dark and Light when it comes out.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:34 pm 
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I've played it a few times since the NGE came out. I really don't like it, but I have some strong RP ties that I will keep. Two of my three accounts will be cancelled and the time I spend in game will be minimal compared to how much I used to play.

I'm enjoying my time in WoW very much, but since school started up again, I won't have all that much time that either :/ Such is life. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:06 pm 
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Maybe a fake report...

Quote:
FikusOfAhazi
12/05/05 2:49:23 AM

I don't expect you to take my word on this but I will share with you what I was told by a friend of mine who works for SOE. I can't give you any more detail like his position, department, etc for fear of him being identified. They apparently are bound by some air-tight non-disclosure agreements.

Below is what I was told:

Apparently, the NGE has really, REALLY stirred things up in Austin. All sorts of fingers are being pointed among SOE employee's as nobody wants to take the blame. Right now EVERYONE is trying to distance themselves from being responsible for making ANY decsions on pushing the NGE live. Every single employee is avoiding any connection to the NGE like the plague. I was told that the Dev's expected SOME account cancelations when the NGE went live, but my insider said they were willing to take those vet losses with the hopes of bringing in new subscribers over the holiday sales season. Also, the devs were counting on most of the threats by vets to quit to not actually go thru with cancelling. They have admitted, at least internally, that they number of cancels has FAR FAR FAR exceeded the number they were willing to take. As a result, there is beginning to be some serious discussion of a pre-NGE rollback. Several dev's are in serious jeopardy of being fired, and many many many of the support staff etc are polishing up their resume's because SOE has become the laughing stock of the online gaming community. No longer is it a badge of pride to work for SOE according to what I was told. Even my friend says he is no longer proud of working for SOE because of how they have destroyed their reputation.

Also, after having to report to LA on the NGE results, specifically the account cancels numbers, some of the big dogs from LA have flown into Austin for some serious intervention. No details on what that means yet, but it is known that Smedly and the senior crew at SOE have been behind closed doors for unusually lengthy meetings and have emerged with scowls on their face. The speculation is that LA is gearing up to crack down big time. (I would love to have been a fly on the wall in those meetings)

Because of the signifacant loss of subscriptions, customer service has laid off 25% of their support staff starting the 1st of January with more cuts expected.

All in all, the NGE turned out to rock the player base more deeply than what they expected. Talks are now underway on cutting the game off sometime in the first quarter of 2006. There is discussion with an outside company that is interested in purchasing the pre-NGE code with the aim of running a handful (5 tops) of pre-NGE servers, and maintained with a skeleton support staff. Right now this is apparently looking to be the most realistic result.

I will post more info as I hear stuff.

Added stuff:

Oh, and my insider said the Devs are being intentionally vague on their forum posting and player communication because they want to keep as many subscribers as possible right now. A memo was passed down to ALL Dev's by the SOE execs with a list of topics that are completely not to be discussed or responded to on the forums. It is generally feared by the SOE team that the more info the player base has, the more of them will quit the game.

Also, the game WAS in the pre-development phase on porting to consol (xbox, playstation), but that those cycles have been 100% stalled at the moment because the future of SWG is so uncertain. But I was told that if any Dev posted or said that consol talks were never taking place it is a lie because significant discussions had already been underway with the design teams experienced with porting PC games to consol systems and that the NGE was partly (not entirely) designed to acomplish this objective


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:12 pm 
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yeah read that yesterday. You never know with these things. But I would not doubt it much. They cannot afford to keeo this game going at the rate they are loosing people.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:54 pm 
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To be honest, it looks like typical troll bait to me.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:57 pm 
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Yea but at the same time I hope its true...I want to see heads roll!!!!

besides at somepoint the poor thing just needs to be put down...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:34 pm 
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agree. Put it down. Buy a new one. Just like I do with my girlfriends.








:shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:47 pm 
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Dragon Fire wrote:
Yea but at the same time I hope its true...I want to see heads roll!!!!

besides at somepoint the poor thing just needs to be put down...

Sadly true.
Each time I read BS like this, it tears me off. Such possibilities....all wasted

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:37 pm 
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It IS very sad. I was thinking about that today too. Between the 7 most active members of our guild, we had 13 accounts. All but three of those accounts have been cancelled. One account is still played regularly, one account will be cancelled shortly and one account's future is unknown.

All three of my SWG accounts have been cancelled. Very sad indeed.

We lost 80% of our guild because of the NGE - there are only two people left who play regularly.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:00 pm 
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I just wonder how much of this is true. My two accounts were cancelled shortly after NGE. Erime's account ran out last week and Somel is expired tommorow. I played some space missions with Somel saturday since space was not 'harmed' by NGE and his account got JTL for free. No one was online, the whole server is a ghost town except for the few respec jedi still running around...carrying guns lol

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:03 pm 
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I'm with DF on this one - I want heads to roll!!! Make those S.O.B.s pay for what they did to the game we once loved. Make them the laughing stock of gaming for years to come and don't let the Devs touch another game. EVER!

Here's hoping SWG2 (if it is ever developed) will meet our wishes.

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