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 Post subject: Open Letter from SWG
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:04 pm 
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Not sure what is more odd. The fact that Smed wrote the letter or that in just a few days it has gotten over 200, yes 200 as in two zero zero pages of replys.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/boar ... ing&page=1

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:41 pm 
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Smed = Leeroy Jenkins

SWG Dev & Design Team = Leeeroy Jenkins

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:54 pm 
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I tried scanning for any replies as I can't search for devposts anymore since I don't have an active account but my eyes got tired after 40+ pages....did he respond back...did any of the devs?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:44 pm 
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Even with a team that size getting new content done along with maintaining the live game, along with developing new systems for SWG just proved to be tougher than it should have been


I found this to be the most laughable bit in there. Anyone know how big the Blizzard team is?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:28 pm 
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I found this to be the most laughable bit in there. Anyone know how big the Blizzard team is?

I've seen quotes that the content team alone on WoW was around 100 people pre-release. Of course all you really have to do is compare the supposed budgets, of which content creation takes up the largest slice, between 10 to 20 million for SWG and 40 plus million for WoW.

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I tried scanning for any replies as I can't search for devposts anymore since I don't have an active account but my eyes got tired after 40+ pages....did he respond back...did any of the devs?

Should still be able to use the Dev Tracker.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/tracker?role=Dev


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:36 am 
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only two quotes both from TH. BTW the thread is now 233 pages long

Quote:
We'll have more information about what is going to happen in the future posted this week.


Quote:
Greetings,

I hope everyone had a great holiday

Here is a quick update. We've all been talking about the community's issues and the actions we are going to take. We'll have some information on what is going to happen this week. Please be patient with us this week as we make decisions on these issues and put together the communication.

Thanks.

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:31 pm 
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One last thing I'd like to discuss in this explanation is the business end of things. Many of you question the logic of the decision to do this NGE.. stating that many of the existing players will quit because we're changing the game so much. From our standpoint we have to look at the game for the long haul. EverQuest is will be 7 years old on March 16th. We HAVE to think that long-term. With the game the way it was we knew we would never be able to attract enough people to really keep SWG viable as a business. It certainly would have kept some portion of our existing playerbase for a good long time, and we would have put out new expansions and new content as well as fixing bugs.. but it wouldn't have appealed to the really large Star Wars fanbase out there.. and frankly over time the existing userbase would have churned out as happens in any game like this. We just didn't have the game we needed to have if we're going to really grow this userbase. It might surprise you to know that after the first combat upgrade, we actually added new subs. We took a step in the right direction, but it just wasn't enough. So what we're doing here is obviously risky.. we're betting that we can make this game a whole lot more fun to our existing userbase AND make it appealing enough so that we can grow that userbase in a major way. Right now I think it's fair to say we have work to do on both ends. I hope you understand that we absolutely value each and every player. You pay the bills around here, and that's not something we are forgetting. None of us like seeing people cancel..If you think this change is about "acceptable losses for a bigger goal", that's simply not the case.. nor is it how we view things. We have a clear plan to make this game a whole lot more fun, for everyone.. and that's the gamble we're making.. that we can pull this off and get you, our players to help us make this the Star Wars game we all want.



Word of mouth is the thorn SOE had with their SWG business. In many ways it was embarrassing to admit that I was still playing SWG. And I quit much earlier than most. I had tried to recruit my cousins, and my schoolmates. Those that were into MMOs had already heard the abundant problems and were waiting for the game to get better with age. Problem is it got worse, and word of mouth continued to keep new players from joining. The # 1 thing that could have helped the SWG business was to release a quality finished product.

It came off the shelves very poor, such so that the press and magazines warned people to wait for improvements. The press said such is the benefit of MMOs because they get better with time. As the months passed key promises where placed on the back burner in order to blend the game into elements of the prequels. Ideas such as underwater cities were said to come after the space expansion because underwater movement was so similar to space movement. SOE could never get to these improvements because their classes were so underdeveloped they had to spend all their time redoing them. In time even the patient press threw in the towel.

The things we did as a PA were amazing. When I tell my family and Danyale tells her coworkers the things we did as a community, none of them can believe us. No one has ever heard of such community involvement and comradery. We were only one of the many great PAs SWG had long before release. SWG had a pre made fan base ready to do all the marketing they ever would need.

Word of mouth kept new players from joining the game. And no one is more responsible for that problem than the SOE and the developers. SWG had an army of players willing to recruit expand the player base. All SOE had to do was deliver a good product and treat its customers well. They did neither.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:59 pm 
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For those of you unable to follow the link here is the complete text of Smed's post:

SOE-Smed wrote:
Hello Everyone,

Obviously the NGE has stirred up a lot of strong feelings among the SWG playerbase. There is no denying these changes have upset some of our players. While I can certainly understand and respect these feelings, I assure you we approached them with a longer term strategy in mind and with the best of intentions. That strategy is to lay the foundation for a longer term vision of the game that will keep people playing for the long haul. Yes, many of our long time players are upset... and we do understand why. We're not sitting in our offices thinking of ways to upset our paying customers.. we're trying to bring Star Wars Galaxies to a broader audience to make sure that it's viable for the long haul.

Why?

Many of you ask "Why did you have to make such a sweeping change rather than just fixing the things that were wrong?" - well, to put it bluntly - everyone had different ideas of what we needed to fix. Trying to balance 34 professions, and add compelling content to make everyone happy proved to be a very large challenge. Many design decisions made early on in the game's creation were boxing the team in to the point that we were never going to be able to really make this game rise to the level it needs to as both a great experience AND as a business. We have consistently kept the SWG team as one of the largest teams within SOE (around 70 people). Even with a team that size getting new content done along with maintaining the live game, along with developing new systems for SWG just proved to be tougher than it should have been. We've got a lot of experience doing MMO's, and SWG has always proven to be the game that was the toughest for us to make changes to. So, along with our partners at LucasArts we did a very lengthy look at just what the fundamental issues with SWG were. We spoke to many of you, read the forums and conducted numerous focus group tests with both existing players, people who have played MMO's before (but not SWG) and people that haven't ever tried MMO's before.

The consistent feedback we recieved through this research showed us where the problems were. Here are the top 3 issues:

1) Difficult to get into - too complicated. People didn't understand what all the professions were, and the interface was just plain hard.
2) Combat wasn't exciting enough
3) Game wasn't "Star Warsy" enough. The professions issue also showed itself here.

In order to make the changes neccessary we examined just what we would have to change, and quickly came to the realization that reducing the number of professions was the single most important thing we had to do. Many of the professions overlapped and when we looked at what would make a really fun Star Wars style game, we came up with the profession list that's in the game now. Equally important to making SWG a viable game in the long term was addressing the fact that combat just wasn't fun enough. I recognize that some of you will disagree here - and I hope you can recognize this is a very subjective thing.. but the research we did was extremely clear on this point - the old combat system wasn't up to snuff. We tried different things and landed on the "fast action" style of combat that's in the game now.

We couldn't make changes of this magnitude without changing some things that people loved - creature handlers for example are among the most upset. This was an example of something that was near and dear to people (including myself btw). It's one of the coolest parts of the game. It's one that's only gone in the short term - we'll be bringing it back in a different form in the near future once we work through the consequences of how we can make this core system work within the new framework. It won't be a profession in and of itself, but something people can do as part of the existing professions.

One last thing I'd like to discuss in this explanation is the business end of things. Many of you question the logic of the decision to do this NGE.. stating that many of the existing players will quit because we're changing the game so much. From our standpoint we have to look at the game for the long haul. EverQuest is will be 7 years old on March 16th. We HAVE to think that long-term. With the game the way it was we knew we would never be able to attract enough people to really keep SWG viable as a business. It certainly would have kept some portion of our existing playerbase for a good long time, and we would have put out new expansions and new content as well as fixing bugs.. but it wouldn't have appealed to the really large Star Wars fanbase out there.. and frankly over time the existing userbase would have churned out as happens in any game like this. We just didn't have the game we needed to have if we're going to really grow this userbase. It might surprise you to know that after the first combat upgrade, we actually added new subs. We took a step in the right direction, but it just wasn't enough. So what we're doing here is obviously risky.. we're betting that we can make this game a whole lot more fun to our existing userbase AND make it appealing enough so that we can grow that userbase in a major way. Right now I think it's fair to say we have work to do on both ends. I hope you understand that we absolutely value each and every player. You pay the bills around here, and that's not something we are forgetting. None of us like seeing people cancel..If you think this change is about "acceptable losses for a bigger goal", that's simply not the case.. nor is it how we view things. We have a clear plan to make this game a whole lot more fun, for everyone.. and that's the gamble we're making.. that we can pull this off and get you, our players to help us make this the Star Wars game we all want.

And that brings me to the really important part of this post - the path forward.


The Path forward

The real purpose of this post is to ask for your help. In this thread, could you please list the top issues you see needing to be addressed in the short term. Any big problems from your perspective - what's really keeping the NGE from being a postive thing from your perspective. We will be watching this thread carefully and taking notes, and posting an ordered list of stuff we'll take care of (and we'll try to say how quickly we can do it as well). Please keep this thread on point. We have to move forward - asking us to pull the NGE out isn't going to be productive. If you really want to help, here's your chance.

From our perspective, we're focused on the following:

1) Fixing actual bugs
2) Adding new skills to differentiate the professions much better, and particularly the advancement path (i.e. making cool new skills the higher you rise through a particular profession).
3) Working on making crafting a much more important part of the NGE.
4) Cool new content - particularly focusing on the Galactic Civil War

As for the future expansions.. we have a lot of ideas (wouldn't it be cool for a guild to have a Star Destroyer?)... but for now we want to focus on what YOU want us to focus on. So please add a lot of constructive thoughts to this thread and let us respond by taking care of as many issues as we can.

A few loose ends -

I would like to specifcally address a few consistent things people have been emailing me - No, we aren't making these changes in order to bring SWG to consoles. This is simply untrue. Noone is working on an Xbox 360 or PS3 version of SWG (Or PS2, Xbox or PSP), nor is one on the drawing board. Would that be cool someday? Sure... but it's not on our radar at all.

Unfortunately we also can't put up a pre-NGE (or PRE-CU) version of SWG. That would require us to support 2 separate versions of the codebase and we're just not able to do that. We couldn't simply put up a version like this unsupported.. what if someone found a really bad exploit?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.. and please join in giving as many constructive ideas as you can (preferably in a list form ordered most important to least important).

John Smedley
President, Sony Online Entertainment

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:00 pm 
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So is anyone still playing this from our side? MGJ, you keeping one account?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:05 pm 
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dbakke wrote:
So is anyone still playing this from our side? MGJ, you keeping one account?

For now.

To tell you the truth, the changes they made do hold a lot of Promise.

All in all, this Revamp does make it a better game then they originally released, and it has much more promise than the original release. However, it is not that much better yet, and only time will tell if they hold up their end, and bring this game up to the level it needs to be at.

I will stay with this game for now, but if I get into the ROME Beta I might be spending even less time in SWG, which isn't that much right now.

We'll see.

Who else is still playing??

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:27 pm 
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I have cancelled and am out... found WoW to be a much better game really.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:54 pm 
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I still have my main account, Alese, but really can't bring myself to get in game and I'll probably cancel her soon. I don't have any fun in game anymore and everyone I know has left so there's no point really. I'm loving WoW so I'm banking on that at this point.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:50 pm 
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I have Moge still active. I am enjoying aspects of combat in the NGE. I am playing through the rest of RotW and if my interest is still there I may pick up Obi Wan.

If they fixed targeting I may like it. In the end it is dumbed down but since I not longer have a huge investment in the game that kinda works for me.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:58 am 
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well Jedi Armor and an NPC balance could be in as early as Thursday. The devs have posted a TON today, to many to repost. Check out the Dev tracker for all of them.

I'm still going through a lot of them Ill Edit this post if I find anything worth mentioning.

Also, aren't you at least a 'little' curious to start a new toon and go through the '30 levels of quest play'?

I am. But I may wait until the extra toon slots become available BTW those are still TBA dates.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:07 am 
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I know I said I'd edit my last but this one deserves its own posting

Quote:
We have been working on a feature that will improve a player’s ability to continue damaging a combat target even when a friendly (non-combatant fellow player) runs between you and your target. This should improve the experience when fighting in a group, both for combat and for healing.

How it works:

* Non-Combat
o Targeting, left-click actions and right-click actions work as they do now
o Reticle, targeting brackets and contextual cursors all work as they do now
* In Combat
o Friendly actions (like healing) ignore all enemies between you and your first “friend”
+ This means that you can heal someone who is hidden behind your combat target
o Combative actions (attacks) ignore all “friends” between you and your combat target
+ This means that you can shoot through someone who is tanking and damage the enemy beyond him
o Red reticle focuses on who you can attack
+ If you are moused over a friend and an enemy walks behind them, your reticle will turn red
+ This is only *during* combat
o Blue targeting brackets focus on who you can attack
+ If you have your blue targeting bracket on a friend and an enemy walks behind them, the brackets will switch to the enemy
+ This is only *during* combat
o All non-combat-related “contextual cursors” stop working when you are in a combat state
+ This means that you will not be able to trade while in combat, for example
* When you leave combat
o After your target is defeated, and you are off of the hate lists of all enemies, you will return to the Non-Combat state described above

This will be showing up on TestCenter before the end of the week, and will get published live as soon as it passes testing.

TSlothrop
Sr. Producer, SWG

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:06 am 
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Ive already cancelled my accounts. Anything short of bringing back the entire pre-nge game is not enough for me. Even then, I grew tired of waiting for things long promised to materialize. They have slowly choked the life out of the game I loved. It was a living, thriving world when it started and now its a lame laughable dead horse. ...jedi armor u say?..we HAD jedi armor b4 nge!! i was a friggin tank! lol now they take things away and lay promises to bring it back like its some added bonus..oh joy! And truthfully, the jedi npcs on mustafar were awesome to fight against! I was impressed with their suprising ability to fight back intelligently and powerfully. Made for great pve jedi combat...but that was short lived. Wanna hear a joke? ...SWG NGE! ha ha

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:20 am 
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Well I think I might finally cancel my account until further notice.

These changes are all well and good but the point is that it's the people here that made the game worth playing for me, but even if they finally get it right, how many are going to come back?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:16 am 
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even if they seem to get it right finally...I don't think I'll be back...by now most of my stuff has poofed and perhaps purged from the database and don't feel like reinvesting all that time...

Besides they seem to have simplified the game ridiculously I loved how diverse the prof were even if they were broke..Rome Victora is looking like what we wished for from SWG interms of divirsity of prof and specialization

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:44 pm 
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I still got my account, but not paying for the subscription.

But if they begin to remake the game over time, as I understood it I might get back again.

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