Avian Gamers Network

Now that GTR Avian Moon has a pretty firm foundation, it's probably time that we starting setting up a charter and confirmed official leaders. We've finally gotten applications in from the core GTR folks (Moon, Mudcrow, and Madmike), so I'd like to hold more or less a dialogue here in this thread with them, and see where they want to go with GTR Avian Moon, and how we can incorporate the traditional Avian way of doing things, without damaging their initial vision for GTR.

The first question is, do you guys (the GTR folks) have any issues with rotating out leaders? And if not, how does that work with the game's mechanics?

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

The initial vision of GTR was to have no rules; our one and only rule was "Be Nice" - and that rule has thankfully been adhered to.

None of us individually is a leader. There are three of us who co-founded GTR - myself, MadMike and our exceptionally silent partner, Morggs.

Mike looks after the website and forum, Morggs does all our statistics on his Red Zone site and I just be. We have all this going on in the background and no actual 'leader' to rotate. We just all do our bit and it works well.

I'm not quite sure what the 'rotating' would entail from Avian's point of view, but all suggestions will be taken on board. Let the negotiations begin

FYI: The mechanics in YRM work such that if a Group President were to resign, the person who was second to join the Group would automatically gain the Presidency.

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Exponential Expansion of Consciousness, Coming Soon to a Planet Near You!

Enter MoonWorld

Perhaps we could arrange a time to get together in the GTR Chatroom Here to discuss things in real-time

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Exponential Expansion of Consciousness, Coming Soon to a Planet Near You!

Enter MoonWorld

Might be a good idea. This could be difficult to hammer out. Or it could be relatively simple and leave it alone. Avian requires some sort of charter for its Wings to be put together and approved by the Board. There are no stipulations as to what that Charter has to say, but it just has to be approved.

It's up to the three charter members of GTR Avian Moon to make sure that charter gets done, but I'd like as much input and creative thinking as we can get here. We certainly don't want to come in and take over, but we would like the opportunity to be involved more if decisions are to be made.

Madmike has done a tremendous job with the GTR site, and we'd like to continue to utilize that talent for GTR Avian Moon as well.

Somebody else jump in here please. I don't want to do all the talking. Should we try to set up a time for chat? Tobias and some of the others need to be involved in this as well.

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

The Charter can be remarkably simple, just look at what I wrote for WoW and you'll see. Technically I don't believe there needs to be a charter for YRM or leaders for that matter. The charter can state that all the rules for Avian (the parent) regarding behavior on the forum apply. They have not in the last 18 months need to have been invoked to my knowledge. There can be no in game shenagigans like we saw at the very begginning of SWG. Perhaps you should spell out how bonus money is divided at the end of the season should we ever see any of it. Beyond that simple as we know now is much better. There is really little reason for rules in YRM because except for the forum we have no real in game interaction. All our contact is here and there are already plenty of rules here.

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"Chatfield, I think there's something wrong with our bloody ships." Admiral David Beatty, upon watching the battlecruiser Queen Mary explode at the battle of Jutland.

My name is Tobias Smith and I approved this post.

So you have done a charter already, maybe you could knock up a simple charter for YRM run it by us, and with a little luck it could be sorted

I have been keeping a fastest lap record in the GTR forum maybe this would be a cool thing to do in here for Avian Moon. You could do what Mudcrow does, and ask people to post a screengrab of there time from the game to confirm it. Or you could all post your times in the GTR forum too, and have one big group table. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas for the GTR website or forum feel free to say. It could do with a little more content
As we have a forum just for YRM it would seem silly to clutter our corner of this forum with information that is already set out on the GTR one like the race section for example. It would seem to make more sense to use the gtr one rather than have a huge list of topics to wade threw on here.
Some things could be copied from the GTR forum and posted here too, like the hints and tips. Kind of make the best of both forums.

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President Green Team Racing (GTR) YRM
My website link.

Hey Toby, what about maybe just something as simple as a "Mission Statement" for what GTR Avian is about, and then just state what all we provide, rather than any kind of rules and what not?

Like you said, coming up with rules or anything would be dumb because the simplicity of the game doesn't leave room for any interaction.

My question then is, do we have any need for leadership at all? What about expanding into a new team, like GTR had done in the past? Things like that probably need to be hammered out. Maybe a Council or something for leadership. That way, when a new team needs to be started to expand, the Council can make sure it happens and gets included in whatever else is going on. I'm rambling. Somebody stop me.

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

first I am not a core member of GTR.
I am hardcore WUR.
I run my own group(s) and also race in others; GTR, GTR Avian Moon, TTM, F1United, BMR, BMR NDS, F1U F3 and I'm also race director for NSC4 & LMS4.

GTR Avian Moon was created as a feeder group for GTR. To be succesful you need feeder groups, so your main team has a constant 50 cars, with the highest scoring cars being promoted to the main group, to boost the main groups rankings.
What are Avian's views on this?

I get the idea that you wish GTR Avian Moon to be a standalone group, sorry but in my opinion, it doesn't have the depth, quality or experience to do well as such. And if it ceases to be a feeder group to GTR, you may find people leaving.

As to a charter and running of the group, there are things that can be done. Advertising being the main thing, you need a constant influx of new members to maintain a group (as you will always be losing cars to the hand of fate). This is something all members can help with, sending out pm's to cars not in groups, the more people doing this means more people are being reached. Maybe you could create an advertising director or something.

Also as has already been mentioned the posting of qualifying times and results. I like this, as it gives more interaction within the team, especially as you rarely race against each other.


But as I said, I have nothing to do with the running of GTR.

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President Green Team Racing (GTR) YRM
My website link.

Thanks for the insight Mud. It's not so much that we wish GTR Avian Moon to be a standalone, but at current, it's the only team officially "Avian." Not sure how to get around that. Any ideas?

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

You could run a mini-championship with just Avian cars.

only official Avian cars would be eligible no matter what group they are in, with the rankings posted on the forum.

Add a nice ninja-yrmcar as a prize, I'm sure that would entice a few GTR Avian Moon members to join the Avian forum to compete for it.

just an idea

This would create a pure Avian group in a sense, with Avian deciding on rules and eligabilty for the contest

maybe add some sort of handicap system to make a level playing field

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I have no interest in making GTR Avian Moon a standalone group but in case you haven't noticed some of us here in Avian love to write big fancy documents and have lots of rules. While I joke about it at one point in another game a few years ago those rules kept this group intact during a crisis of sorts (if you can have a crisis in a game?)

GTR is older than GTR Avian Moon and the addition of the Avian Members. I respect that. The renaming of the feeder group was a nice concession but I have no interest in further distancing ourselves from that group, hell, I want to be in that group when the season ends! I would love to encourage our members to visit your the GTR site more often (if for no other reason than to stop the flood of setting requests at the start of each race )

I like the idea of an advertising director. I can write a charter. Right now all it would include would be that the rules apply to Avian Members of the group only. They would reiterate the rules of the forums in effect for the avian website apply. It would name a director that would speak as a voice for Avian members in the group as a whole. The director would have no real policy making power but her/his duties might include encouraging recruitment etc.

Really, I am overjoyed to have some new blood in Avian and I am glad Talon suggested playing this game many months ago. I just think we need to remember that as Avian has changed to a multi gamer it becomes harder to cookie cutter all the new groups into a standard mold.

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"Chatfield, I think there's something wrong with our bloody ships." Admiral David Beatty, upon watching the battlecruiser Queen Mary explode at the battle of Jutland.

My name is Tobias Smith and I approved this post.

Ohh... I think we've had a couple... Daed, Dummin, Guild Hall, Imperials, and a few others...

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--The Hermit

heh.. yeah. We had our times didn't we.

With Madmike, Mudcrow, and Moon all members of Avian, would it be totally out of the question to bring all the GTR Groups together and completely set up a Heirarchy of groups using the groups that GTR has?

In other words, within Avian's YRM Wing, we have all the GTR groups. You start in the bottom ranked group your first season, with the ultimate goal of getting to the "best of the best" group at the top of the heap. In essence, GTR is Avian is GTR. We could even ditch the forum here, and just link the forum to your GTR page, since you have all that set up already. All the members of GTR would become members of Avian I suppose. Just thinking out loud.

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

They were there before all of us and GTR includes many more members who have no affiliation with this site or our group. I am would love to discuss how to link the groups closer or what the role of or goal of the Avian Group is but I think that it is probably too much to ask to try to include all the GTR members in Avian. There are many members of even GTR Avian Moon that are not yet Avian members and they are unlikely to join.

I think our focus needs to be on what being in Avian means. I love that Mud, Mike and Moon have joined. I think they enjoy our more active forums though I won't speak for them. We won't ever get everyone to join though. Let's continue to banter about some simpler ideas first like an Avian only championship for next year. Let's get a simple charter for the BoD and build on it. I like the fact that Talon is brainstorming but it I think a complete merge is out of the question.

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"Chatfield, I think there's something wrong with our bloody ships." Admiral David Beatty, upon watching the battlecruiser Queen Mary explode at the battle of Jutland.

My name is Tobias Smith and I approved this post.

Any who are interested in discussing this a little more on PA wide basis, please see the following thread:

http://www.swg-avian.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14074

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"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

GTR Avian Moon is now full, although it would appear there are quite a few sleepers in there.

May I suggest the following? ...

GTR has an overflow, GTR Red Zone, but I don't feel that asking you to put your sleepers in there from GTR Avian is the way forward.

The time has come for GTR Avian to get an overflow group for the sleepers. Decide amongst yourself who will be President, remembering that the next person to join will become President if and when you resign.

As the season's go on, the overflow group will become a racing group and another overflow group will be needed, and so on and so forth.

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Exponential Expansion of Consciousness, Coming Soon to a Planet Near You!

Enter MoonWorld