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 Post subject: EVEMon is great!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:43 pm 
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EVEMon is great!

Just came across where it will generate skill planning text for forum posting. Just cut and paste.

EVEMon wrote:
Skill Plan for Cyrus Rex

1: Infomorph Psychology I (15 minutes, 25 seconds)
2: Drones II (1 hour, 1 minute, 38 seconds)
3: Repair Systems III (5 hours, 15 minutes, 54 seconds)
4: Drones III (5 hours, 48 minutes, 24 seconds)
5: Hull Upgrades III (10 hours, 59 minutes, 12 seconds)
6: Spaceship Command IV (23 hours, 25 minutes, 22 seconds)
7: Drones IV (1 day, 8 hours, 51 minutes, 9 seconds)
8: Hull Upgrades IV (2 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes, 13 seconds)
9: Drones V (7 days, 17 hours, 50 minutes, 31 seconds)
10: Heavy Drone Operation I (1 hour, 6 minutes, 8 seconds)
11: Gallente Cruiser IV (7 days, 23 hours, 38 minutes, 27 seconds)
12: Gallente Battleship I (2 hours, 3 minutes, 27 seconds)

12 skills; Total time: 21 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes, 57 seconds; Completion: 10/9/2006 12:04:13 PM


Moge says I need the above before I can try to join him. Wonder if I can stay on schedule?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:36 pm 
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in theory you can really move out anytime. You would just need to have someone tank for you while mining. Those skills will allow you to self tank while mining.

What we usually do is find a belt wth crokite and with pirates already there. Send in a tank to generate agro. Once all rats are shooting the tank we can go in and mine in peace. The tank can run 24/7 so we can mine for hours without new pirates respawning.

Since we are so far out of the way we rarely have problems with player hunters. If we do then we just call for help in a private channel and the ruling alliance comes in and quickly handles the problem - hopefully before anyone dies.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:55 pm 
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That program is wonderful.

With it I can choose skills such that they will finish just after I return from work. In the past I had to do the math in my head, but now the program does the math for all my planned skills, and it is easy to see which skills will complete too early. I just train a quick one, or knock out a few hours on a big on until the one I really want ends just after I normally get home.

I did all that in the past, but I would get them wrong some time. This makes it very easy to plan ahead!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:51 pm 
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Cyrus Rex wrote:
I just train a quick one, or knock out a few hours on a big one until the one I really want ends just after I normally get home.


...Sounds like my last relationship

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:32 am 
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LOL@Jason

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:32 pm 
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iJasonT from other thread wrote:
X2 - if you have a paid subscription it is very worth your time to download Evemon and just set a random goal and train towards it.

2 months of training leanring and missle skills can have a huge impact when you return to play the game.

This is basically what I did with Moniker a few months ago. I chose to reup her as I knew I wanted to get back in but just not right then. I set her up with max learning skills and a few 20day skills. Now that I am back ingame she is advancing much faster then Moge who I didnt reup early.
Ok, got EVEmon, but need some help. What skills do I actually need to learn? Ok, I can plan the skills to get a battleship, but I don't know what to equip it with or what extra skills I need for something like tanking.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:57 pm 
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what is your race and what battleship do you plan to fly?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:20 pm 
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To effectively pilot a battleship, you really need two things: the ability to take damage and keep going (tank), and the ability to return that damage (offense).

For offense, you need to be able to utilize the capabilities of the ship you choose. If it's a missile platform, you will naturally want to work on missile skills. Most ships have drone bays as well as turret or missile hardpoints, so it's always a good idea to work on drone skills, no matter what racial ships you fly. For drones, my suggestion is to get drones to level 5 and then set a goal to work toward T2 scout drones, which is a relatively quick goal to meet while giving you access to both light and medium T2 attack drones. Once you get drones to level 5, however, you'll be proficient enough with drones to let it take a backburner for a bit. The supporting drone skills are nice sometimes, but there are some difficulties with them. Skills that improve drone tracking, damage, and range (not optimal range, but the maximum range that you can deploy them against a target) are the most useful supporting skills to have.

As for gunnery, you should try to get that skill to level 4 as quickly as possible, then have at least a few points in each of the supporting skills, as they are all extremely useful. Gunnery 5 should be a longer term goal which eventually leads you to T2 turrets. But in the end, the must have skills for gunnery are the weapons upgrades skills. The first skill, Weapon Upgrades, decreases the CPU need for any turret weapon (this does not apply to mining turrets, unfortunately, despite their need for a turret hardpoint). The second skill is similar, applying to Powergrid needs. Both these skills are extremely helpful for equipping more and more fitting intensive ships and can free up necessary power and cpu for proper tanks or medium fittings.

I'm not an expert at missiles, but you will need Missile launcher operation at least at level 3 as soon as you can. For battleships, the cruise missile is the weapon of choice. They are flexible weapons that have long range, good tracking, and good damage. This means with the right skills you can use them against anything from a frigate class ship (though they're much less effective against frigates) to a battleship or larger. Torpedos are very high damage, slow, and have a relatively short range and terrible tracking. Their primary use is against mainly stationary targets, ie. capital ships and stations. Battleships are usually slow enough for these to be effective, but you're better off with cruise missiles. Supporting skills for missiles are extremely important. The most important supporting skills are those that increase range (usually by increasing the missile's speed), rate of launch, and ability to hit (skills which decrease the effect of the target's velocity or signature radius on damage given).



Now, for the tank...
Again, there are 3 basic approaches here, but you can't really mix and match as much as you can with the offense sollutions, and it is heavily dependent on the ship you are flying. The three types of tanks are: Speed Tank, Shield Tank, and Armor Tank. For most ships (i will discuss one exception to this rule later), it is best to tank according to the race specialty. As far as this goes, Speed Tank isn't considered a racial tanking specialty, so the choice is between Armor Tanking and Shield Tanking. For Gallente and Caldari the choice is clear-- Gallente armor tank, and Caldari shield tank. For Amarr and Minmatar ships, however, you really have an option and can usually get a decent tank out of both options.

For the sake of academics, and because it's useful to know for smaller ships, I'll discuss Speed Tanking briefly. Speed Tanking relies on two things: velocity and signature radius. Signature radius, for most ships, is impossible to minimize (though some modules increase signature radius, particularly MWDs). Velocity itself does not make a speed tank, so the only ships that really have an option to speed tank are frigates, destroyers, and to a limited degree, cruisers due to their relatively small signature radii (basically, the bigger you are the easier you are to hit). Velocity, if you will remember from whatever physics you may have taken, is both speed and direction travelled over a period of time. Both these concepts are important to speed tanking because the ability of a ship to hit another ship relies heavily on how well its turrets' tracking can keep up with the other ship.

The turrets are relatively stationary, so the only speed which matters to them is how fast you are going laterally-- imagine that the turrets are viewing things as a two dimensional image. The speed at which an object travels from one side of the image to the other is the only thing that is important. If the object travels slowly enough, the turret can track it and hit it. If the object travels too quickly, the turret can't keep up, and will miss. The distance of the object being tracked has an affect as well. An object moving at 200m/s at a range of 15km is easier to hit than an object moving at 200m/s at 5km because the closer object is going to seem to cover the same distance (one edge of the image to the other) in less time than the distant object. A loose idea of how easy or hard something will be to hit is to see what the transversal velocity between your ship and the object is. The higher the velocity, the harder you are to hit, and the closer you are the more that higher velocity has an effect on how hard you are to hit. Naturally, the best skills for speed tanking are the navigational skills.

Shield tanking and Armor tanking follow fairly similar theories. Increase the damage resistance so you take less damage, and thus be able to heal faster than you take damage or at least be able to reduce the rate at which you take unrecovered damage. There is one key difference-- shields have a natural recharge rate. As a result, it's possible to passively tank on the shields with the right setup, freeing capacitor resources for weapons and other modules. Active tanks are more flexible, however, and capable of absorbing much higher rates of damage per second than passive tanks.

For both Armor and Shield tanking, damage resistance comes before hit points. If you can repair more damage than you take, the amount of total hitpoints you have is relatively irrelevant. You should only seek to increase the hitpoints of your armor or shield after you are satisfied with your resistances and your boosting or repping ability. Thus, the most important skills to have are the compensation skills and the boosting or repairing skills. Also, you will want to get the shield or armor skills to the point where you can use T2 equipment as soon as possible. For T2 armor hardeners, this means Hull Upgrades V; for T2 armor repairers, you need Mechanic III-V (III for smalls, IV for mediums, V for larges) and Repair Systems III-IV (III for smalls, IV for mediums and larges); for T2 shield hardeners, it is Tactical Shield Manipulation IV; and for T2 Shield boosters, it is Shield Operation III-V (III for small and medium boosters, IV for large boosters, V for extra large boosters).

The tanking skills are more important than the ship-piloting skills or offensive skills. I repeat, the tanking skills are more important than the ship-piloting or offensive skills.



Now... a quick note about tanking choice based on race. Some ships within each race's ships can actually go against their race's tendency toward one tank type or another. One case would be the Dominix, which can be effectively shield tanked or armor tanked (though armor tank still has a slight edge and better supports the Dominix's drone capabilities).

Also, there's actually a fourth type of tanking which can be termed Kiting or Range tanking. It's similar in theory to speed tanking, as it relies on not being hit rather than being able to soak the damage. It essentially relies on your range capabilities to be so advanced that your maximum effective range is outside the effective range of your opponents, and you are fast enough to maintain that range (doesn't take a lot of speed, really). Unfortunately, this is only a reliable tank in PVE due to two factors: Players are more likely to use MWD to get into optimum range, and another player could have range equal to your own.

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Last edited by Skotticus on Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:21 pm 
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Holy crap, that turned into a full-blown tanking guide... hopefully I remembered to answer the skill questions, or provided the info necessary to find the answers in evemon, hehe....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:05 pm 
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iJasonT wrote:
what is your race and what battleship do you plan to fly?
I'm a Caldari, donno on the battleship yet.

Skotticus, I'll read all that tomorrow!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:02 pm 
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Ok, just read all that.

So I'm going with a caldari battleship shield tank. First question: Raven or Scorpion?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:49 pm 
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Raven. Raven is known as one of the best battleships. The Scorpion is an Electronic Warfare BS.

Moniker uses a Raven. For 0.0 space you will want Cruise missles and torps to at least lvl 2. Bombardment III and rapid Launch III. You probably could get away with on Heavy missles but heavy missles just cannot make a dent in the 1.25mil BS Rats.

Also, you want a long reach. Most Rats will maintain a maximum range with you so if you do not have an AB or MWD you can never get within range of them, which can be annoying.

Most people forgo the AB in place of either a Cap recharge or shield hardener. If I dont have a loot ship I will also put a tractor beam on my ship to help with looting.

Oh and amor or shield repair drones are really cool too. The Raven kind sucks at drones so Im planning on putting shield repair drones and maybe 1 or 2 armor drones in it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:13 pm 
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Well, armor repair drones are nice when you're in a support role. However, since you can't target yourself, the drones can't actually repair your own armor.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:57 pm 
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DOH!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:43 am 
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Skotticus wrote:
Well, armor repair drones are nice when you're in a support role. However, since you can't target yourself, the drones can't actually repair your own armor.


Sense this does not make!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:06 am 
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Basically, support drones like armor repair drones are for repairing other people's armor =)

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