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 Post subject: Game Overview
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:04 am 
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excellent overview for the game
http://www.whitewolfclan.net/pobs/review.htm

Principles of Sailing
http://avian-gamers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18067

Long Dev video covering Characters, Boarding, ships and general overview
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/7893

Edit: Stickied as it has lots of good newbie info

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Last edited by iJasonT on Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:49 pm 
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Based on this alone, I'm very tempted to cancel my EVE subscription and sign up straight away!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:47 pm 
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http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/7893

Just incanse you missed this link earlier. This is an excellent general overview video. Quite long.

Fighting styles:
Fencing: Highest DPS, low defense (ala Fire Mage)
Dirty Tricks: Crowd Control+ stun lock (ala ice mage/rogue)
Florentine: Defense + dodge (mix of Warrior + defensive rogue moves)

Naval NPCs patrol starting areas attacking players that are 'to high a level to be in area' (Concord in Eve)

Sailing from South-eastern corner to North western corner of map is about an hour in a fast ship depending on wind.

Boarding a ship.
cannot grapple if:
defending ship has xx number of men more than you
Defending ship is traveling at xx speed

You need to chain shot the sails and grape shot the crew first to slow it down and lower the number of men they have aboard.

Once aboard there are two tactics. Kill the captain or kill the crew. Each captain and launch reinforcements x number of times. x = the number of men you have aboard. I think you start with a boarding party of 6 on 6 + the captains. If the captain (you) dies, you respawn. Respawning takes one of your reinforcment waves. If you have 0 remaining reinforcement waves and the captain dies, the battle is over. Strategy is, do you go for the captain or kill the crew? Up to you.

If the attacking force wins the battle, the attacked ship lets adrift. If you are a pirate you can claim the ship. A Naval officer can turn the ship in for a commendation. Collect commendations for rare loot or ships. Not sure about freetraders.


World does look like WoW and "!" over an NPC head marks a quest giver.

Still no idea on character advancement.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:00 pm 
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Some insightful speculation - now with sources!

Jess Lebow said in his Devlog in Feburary that he was bound and determined to ship with 1000 or more missions per nation, and that added up to between 300 and 600 hours of play for the "average" player (not counting time in PvP or the Economy).

Last week, Rusty stated that he'd been informed that roughly 1/2 of the missions were for AFTER you already were level 50.

It's simple to then infer that the average player, just running quests, will hit level 50 in between 150 and 300 hours, and that there will be another 150-300 hours worth of "stuff" to do at level 50...


Quote:
skilled lvl 1 captain to sink a noob lvl 50 captain


Quote:
Levels also expand the amount of skills your character can receive. You will receive one skill every level so a character with 50 skills will be more effective than a character with 5 skills.


Like in Eve you do not gain 'more health or more mana' per level. You start and end with the same amount. Your ship - as you gain level and skill you gain access to better ships - determines all of this. This is why a lvl 1 experienced player 'could' beat a lvl 50 noob. Again, just like Eve.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:07 pm 
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you cannot 'walk' on the ship while at sea. You just 'pilot' the ship. You can, however, walk around towns etc. Some missions are also said to take place on ships. These would allow you to walk around them.

Boarding takes place on a 'generic ship deck' instance

Quote:
Oh, yeah. Definetly not the "real" ships deck.

I made the 3D model for La Belle. There is barely enough room for even the cannons to recoil and not hit the rowboat.

Plus with the rate we 3D art guys are trying to add more ships to the game I would hate to have to go through them and make a sword vs sword combat zone out of each one. That would be a never ending job.

P.S. Don't bother looking for La Belle in the current version of the ship guild. Somehow La Belle and the frigate Raae both got left out of it for the time being.


La Belle
Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:14 pm 
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Yes you can group with your friends anytime..i think the max group is 8


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I remember seeing, in a video, I believe, that the quests will be instanced to prevent precisely this issue. In the quest that was given as an example, you had to either protect or sink some particular person. That action was done inside of an instance so that not only do you have to wait for the target to spawn, but that also you never magically run in to him again even though you sunk him.


Quote:
We don't know much about skill trees yet. All we know is that every even level you get a single ship to ship combat ability to chose from, and every odd level you get a new sword combat ability, so that makes 25 of each kind. I forget how many they said you could chose from, but I keep thinking it's 50 of each type. Naturally that means you cannot get everything.


Quote:
1. All combat, even regular attacking of random NPC ships all take place in a private "instanced" scenario. There is a two stage process to initiate combat. Travel around on the lower polygon, lower detailed ocean Nav Map, find an NPC ship to attack, get near him, and hit your attack button. Loading, Please wait.... Ok, now you and that NPC are alone in much higher detailed ships, complete with men on the decks, your captain character standing on the quarterdeck pointing and barking orders, nice waterfalls on the island neaby, ect. Now you fight it out in ship to ship combat. Nobody but you two.

Even a boarding action in combat is yet again another level deeper in. Now you are taken off your quarter deck away off that detailed ocean with battling ships, and now you are in deck envirionment with NPC crew, and their NPC crew and captain at the other end of the ship (see a video on Ten Ton Hammer website). You battle it out with pistols and swords. When you win, then you go back to the detailed ocean ship to ship combat zone. By the way, your ship is still vulnerable to enemy gunfire while you go off and sword fight, so you could come back and find a mess if you were outnumbered by enemy ships.

So now lets say you get tired of whacking random NPC ships. Now you want to try a mission. You go to town (which is a 100% non-combat zone, so you can't attack anything even if you wanted to), find a mission on a NPC...check the tavern probably...and then go whever the guy asks you to go. When you get there, enter the mission zone and again, you are alone, nobody can interfere with you, and you fight the mission. You leave the regular gameworld behind.

Again, you are not going to be seeing other players while in combat. Each time you fight, you are moved off the gameworld and into a special combat arena, both for ship to ship combat, and again even for sword to sword combat between men.


Quote:
That being said, this game does NOT increase your character's stats as you level up. If you have 200 hit points at level 1, then you still have 200 hit points at level 50. Why? This is a PvP game, and they want it so level 1's can participate and even win against level 50 guys.

Those 25 abilities are all that seperate you from the level-1 guys (well, and leveling up unlocks more ship classes for you to command). Make good use of them, since those "little" guys can kill you.


Quote:
4. Yup, up to 8 people can go with you. On that nav map when you start a fight against an NPC ship, you go through the "Loading...please wait" screen and enter your cool looking combat zone, you leave behind a bouy on the nav map bobbing in the water. Your friends in the group with it can sail up to it and click on it to come in the fight too.

To up the stakes here, you can also fire off a flare in the first minute of a new fight. What that does is change it so anybody from your faction (i.e. you are Spanish, so now all Spaniards) can come into that combat zone and help out.

The negative to firing off those "HELP ME" flares is that you now get no experince points for winning.

The max size of ship to ship combat is 50 ships. That is all the game can handle and not bog down, crash, dump you offline, or some such bad thing. It's a computer limitation, not a gameplay decision.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:18 pm 
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So to get from the Tavern in Barbados to the Tavern in Peurto Rico, you....

1. As your captain avatar you are in the Barbados bar, go to the door.
2. Loading, Please wait.
3. In the street, run to the docks.
4. Loading Please wait.
5. Now you are a low detailed ship, sail to Puerto Rico. Halfway there you get jumped by a hostile NPC French ship.
6. Loading, Please Wait.
7. You as a high detail ship and high detail French ship are alone near a beautiful island. You close and board him.
8. Loading, please wait.
9. You are now your captain avatar, a few friendly NPC crew, and you fight the French crew on a ship deck envirionment. You win
10. Loading please wait.
11. You are back in control of your high detail ship near the beautiful island. A derelict french ship is floating near you. You pick up your loot and leave.
12. Loading Please wait.
13. You are on the Open Sea again, and back as a low detailed version of your ship. You continue on to Puerto Rico and arive.
14. Loading, Please wait.
15. You are on the dock of Puerto Rico as your captain avatar. You run to the tavern door.
16. Loading please wait.
17. You have arived and are in the tavern.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:37 pm 
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Character Skills

02.11.03 by Augustus

Does it sound like I’m excited in every one of my posts? If it does, it’s because I am. I’ve spent the last several days working on the specs for character skills and skill development. I think the PR department wants to meter out some of the specific information, but I’ll try to talk about some of what I’ve done.

First off, the goal was to create a single skill and skill advancement system that would work for Crew, Officers and Captains, both PC and NPC. I mentioned this in a previous dev log. Well, the system has been created, and we’re very excited about it. It should feel familiar to players of skill-based games, but at the same time, it has several innovations which should set it apart, and both make it more realistic and more fun.

NOTE: All the specific words used in the terminology I’m about to mention are subject to change according to people with writing talent.

I’ve turned out skill networks for Gunhandling, Sailhandling, Navigation, Leadership and Coordination. Each network consists of some basic skill areas, and around a dozen specific “techniques”, which are essentially special attributes (constant modifiers) or special abilities (you choose when to “use” them).

One of the truly delightful aspects of our skill system is if a player is not at all interested in skill advancement, they can skip that portion of the game entirely. A player who doesn’t want to get involved in training their character’s skills can simply hire officers and crew of the appropriate skill levels, and who have the techniques the player is interested in. The character would be at a disadvantage in personal combat, but the ship would run and fight at basically the same level as the player’s peers.

Another fun thing about our skill system is its extensibility. Once the system is in place, we can at any time add entirely new skill areas, or add new techniques to existing skill areas. And because one of the fundamental principles of our system is that no player should ever have to start over, if you want to focus your character on a new skill area that’s just opened up, you can do so with your existing character as easily as you could with a new one. In Pirates of the Burning Sea, nobody is getting old enough that they can’t be taught new tricks ;)

That’s enough for now, but I can’t wait to share a glimpse at the details of this system.

-Taylor Daynes
Lead Designer

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:41 pm 
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A lot of loading screens it appears but actually do like how they move from low to high level detail areas. No sense having everything high detail to bog things down. High detail only makes sense to have where you are fighting.

I am expecting the load screens to be fairly short in length. The Devs must have taken that into account in terms of player enjoyment and not wanting to just sit there for minutes waiting for an instance to load.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:59 pm 
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Couple nitpicks personally on those things...

I would like to be able to enjoy sailing in high detail at times when Im just exploring however....

Loading screens seem excessive...
-Most online RPG's are going seamless especially when entering buildings...
-The load times between winning a deck battle and returning to ship kind of sucks if their are multiple enemies...for a decent amount of time your ship can take a beating while you are powerless

I don't like picking skills as you level, it leads to the oh you picked the wrong skill situations more often then not which in many games can cripple a player and force you to reroll your character...I like the ability of Guild Wars, SWG and some other RPGs that allow you to change how you play and learn what your style is without punishing the player...

Quote:
The negative to firing off those "HELP ME" flares is that you now get no experience points for winning.

If groups are 8ppl max that means 16 total possible for experience point fights... the question I would have is then is it only the flare shooter who doesn't get points or everyone? Because risking my ship, crew and self for no gain would seem dumb to the rescuers...

All that said...I want to play!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:04 pm 
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Dragon Fire wrote:
Quote:
The negative to firing off those "HELP ME" flares is that you now get no experience points for winning.

If groups are 8ppl max that means 16 total possible for experience point fights... the question I would have is then is it only the flare shooter who doesn't get points or everyone? Because risking my ship, crew and self for no gain would seem dumb to the rescuers...
You don't lose XP if your group engages but if you open it as a free-for-all.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:10 pm 
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so far as I know. You can unlearn skills at anytime - much like WoW and Talents.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:10 pm 
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yea I worded that poorly, I was wondering who gets and who doesn't get XP if you open up via Flare for a free for all...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:24 pm 
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Dragon Fire wrote:
yea I worded that poorly, I was wondering who gets and who doesn't get XP if you open up via Flare for a free for all...
By the sounds of it, no one.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:29 pm 
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Free-for-all = a plea for a kind nation-mate to come try and save you. Neither will get xp. Up to you if you wanna risk your ship. Guess you'll have to assess your ship vs his attacker before helping.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:39 pm 
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what about the attacker who likely ganked the noob-esque vessel hence the reason for the entire flare?

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Dragon Fire wrote:
what about the attacker who likely ganked the noob-esque vessel hence the reason for the entire flare?


That can only happen in an area of contention which was clearly indicated on the noob's map. Grapeshot's a harsh teacher, but effective. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:50 am 
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Very old Dev-log on Privateering. I suspect some of the mechanics may have changed since then, but here it is anyway. If I find newer contradictory or confirmary information I'll post it too.
Quote:
So you want to be a Privateer?

06.03.03 by Augustus

There have been some questions on this subject, and it’s an interesting one, so I’m going to devote a dev-log to it.

First off, what is a Privateer? A Privateer is a private citizen who has been given the authority by a government to hunt down and capture vessels of a different nation. In Pirates of the Burning Sea, you may only apply for a Letter of Marque if you meet the following requirements:
1)You may not be a member of any Navy or Trade Company (Navies don’t need them, and your Trade Company wouldn’t allow it).
2)You must have a clean legal record with the nation. You do not, however, have to be a citizen of that nation.

You qualify – what next? A Letter of Marque only applies against one other nation. So at the British Admiralty, you have two choices: Spain and France. You CAN apply for both if you’re feeling particularly hostile. However, the availability and fee for Letters of Marque depends upon the relations between the two nations. Allies don’t send Privateers against one another (not until you guys become Governors, anyway). It’s possible (but difficult) to get a Letter of Marque against a nation neutral to yours, but wars are when Privateers have the best prospects.

What does a Letter of Marque mean for you? It means you can capture enemy vessels (warships and merchants) and send them back as Prizes. Looting captured ships is still not allowed – the Admiralty is very strict on piracy. In addition, you are not allowed to sink ships, because then the Admiralty cannot confirm whether or not you looted the ship before it sunk. The reputation of the entire nation is at stake, so they don’t mess around.

In order to take a Prize, you must board and capture the vessel – that’s the hard part. With the vessel in your hands, simply send over an officer and some crewmen in order to sail it home. Once aboard, the prize crew automatically sets sail for the nearest prize court. You have no control over the ship anymore, but you can sail alongside to help ensure it gets safely to its destination. When the ship reaches port, the government auctions the vessel off to the local shipyards. The government takes a cut of the proceeds (the amount varies, depending on the current diplomatic relationship), and the rest is deposited in your bank account. For R1, the men of the prize crew wander off to seek employment, so if you’re planning on a cruise, hire some extra officers to be prize captains.

Keep in mind that the line between Privateer and Pirate is extremely nebulous – a legitimate Privateer to Britain may be considered a Pirate by the Spanish. As such, the Navy is very picky about who they give Letters to. A Privateer’s actions reflect on the Crown, so criminals will quickly lose their backing and will become targets for the Navy.

Many fortunes were made under Letters of Marque, but just like for Captain Kidd, it only takes a change of interpretation to go from Privateer to Pirate. It’s easy to fall afoul of the law, but if you play it straight and watch the political climate you can have a very lucrative career.

For Crown and Country!

-Taylor Daynes
Lead Designer

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Another of the earlier dev-logs on Character Skills
Quote:
Skills and Techniques - Part 1

06.18.03 by Augustus

For the last few days, I’ve been working on our skill data. Up to this point, the system was mapped out but the actual skills themselves were undefined. Now I’ve got time in the schedule to flesh out what those skills are, and what techniques are involved. Skills? Techniques? What are these words I’m using, you ask?

Our skill system is fundamentally focused around two things, how much you know, and how well you can apply your knowledge. Right now, we call this “Knowledge” and “Practice”

Knowledge is gained through study and instruction. Practice is gained through… well… practice. This is not a class-based system, so there is no limit to the amount that you can learn, but there is a practical limit to the amount you can practice, especially since your Practice level decays over time. Using skills regularly will outweigh or equalize the decay, and you’ll gain or maintain your applied skill level.

So what are these Techniques I mentioned? Techniques are various special abilities, or special knowledge that you character possesses which make them more capable in combat, in trade, in sailing and in leading. Techniques are the way that you’ll truly customize your characters.

In order to use a technique, you must first learn it. Learning a technique is possible through a variety of means: convincing some wizened old hermit to teach you his secrets, enrolling at one of the Naval academies, studying under a famous captain, or even reading a book.

Once you understand the Technique, you can begin practicing it. Each Technique keeps track of its own Practice level, so you can tell exactly how good you are in every area. As you might imagine, many techniques require prior knowledge before they can be learned. For instance, you may have to learn “Range Estimation” and “Trajectory Calculation” before you can learn “Bombardier,” which allows you to fire mortars.

So what Skills are there?

First, I’ll point out that the Skill list in R1 is but a small subset of what we have planned. There are a tremendous number of skills that will show up when avatars are introduced, there are a large number of craft and construction skills in the works, skills that will be associated with certain careers that will become available, and many other more miscellaneous skills that will pop up from time to time.

Having said that, I’m proposing the following skills to the devs for R1:
1)Sailing
2)Gunnery
3)Commerce
4)Boarding
5)Surgery
6)Repair
7)Officer
8)Command

These should all be fairly self-explanatory, and cover all the major aspects included in R1. For each skill, there are between 20 and 50 techniques already mapped out. The review meeting at the end of this week with the devs will help us determine which of those Techniques are feasible for R1, and which will have to wait for future roll-out.

-Taylor Daynes
Lead Designer

Quote:
Skills and Techniques, Part 2

07.02.03 by Augustus

So, some of you may be asking yourselves what were the results of the Skills meeting?

Two skills were cut for R1 because they were less applicable than the others, and can easily be added later. The cut skills are “Boarding” and “Surgery”.

“What?!” you cry, “You’ve taken Boarding out of R1?!?”

No, we haven’t. Boarding still exists, there just aren’t specific techniques that you can apply during a boarding action. Boarding is still possible, and the odds of success are determined by the number of men that you have and how you use them. (You can order your crew to press the attack or defend and cut grapples, for example.)

The decision to leave out the specific boarding techniques was based on the following reasons:
1)We’ve got a relatively simple and abstract boarding system in place now, to tide us over until we implement the RealityBoarding™ system, complete with avatars, sprawling melees, duels and firearms.
2)Because the boarding system will change so dramatically between now and Avatars, if we make specific boarding skills now, most likely they’ll either be removed or made useless once we implement the real thing. We don’t want people to invest heavily in the boarding skill only to hamstring it, or take it away later.

So that should explain where we’re coming from on the Boarding skill.

“My goodness!” you exclaim, “No Surgery skill? You mean my crew won’t recover in R1?!?”

Of course they will! But for now, everybody’s crewmen will recover at the same rate. The decision to take this skill out was mostly because of resource management. Each technique that we put into Surgery is a technique that we CAN’T put into something else given our schedule. I came up with a number of interesting techniques for Surgery, but when it comes down to it, we decided we’d rather spend the time on more options in commerce, gunnery, and sailhandling.

There will be a lot of great techniques for your surgeon (and yourself) to learn in the future, and things become especially interesting once we get avatars here, too.

“What about the rest of the Skills and Techniques?” you muse. “How are they?”

They’re great! Since the meeting, I’ve narrowed each Skill down to 10 or so special Techniques. Some skills also have Specializations, which are more general techniques, like the ability to specialize in “long cannons”, or “two-masted, square-rigged vessels”
And of course, new techniques are very easy for us to create, so we’re expecting to introduce new techniques into the world all the time. Even skills are a relatively small matter to add – which is good, because there is a long list of skills we’re interested in implementing as time goes on, including all the Avatar-based skills, crafting and (if I get my way ;) ) more fun and esoteric skills like “wine appreciation”.

So we now expect to have the following skills in R1:

1) Sailing
2) Gunnery
3) Commerce
4) Repair
5) Officer
6) Command

Each of these has a bunch of techniques. For example, our current plans for the Sailing skill include the techniques Wet Sails, Every Inch of Canvas, Optimize for this Heading, Quick Belay, Jumpstart, Flying Stop, Rig Specialization and Rig Modification. What do these do? Stay tuned.

All this needs to go through one more review to get final approval, so I’ll keep everyone posted.

-Taylor Daynes
Lead Designer

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:34 am 
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On NPCs
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PC vs. NPC Philosophy

07.09.03 by Augustus

A distinguished member of our community recently asked what we would do if one of the nations was less popular with the players and only attracted a quarter the population of the others.

I’ll answer this question by launching into a massive philosophical treatise:

One of the ways that Pirates of the Burning Sea differs from other massively multiplayer games is the role of the players vs. NPCs in the world. In most MMP games, the human players are effectively the only players. One popular MMP philosophy is that players should fill roles at every level of society in a pyramid structure, so that 95% of the player-base is doing boring, monotonous work in order to support the 5% of the player-base at the top who are actually having fun or making a difference.

This is totally backwards. When I play my character in San Juan in 1720, I don’t want to be the guy who sweeps the street every night. If I am going to play a crafter, I want to be a noteworthy crafter, and I want to end up as a master artisan, whose work is sought after by the rich and famous of every nationality. When I’m in the Navy, I don’t want to be forced to patrol the safe waters around Havana simply because that’s my job. I want to be on the front lines, blockading cities and fighting massive engagements.

That’s where NPCs come in. Why force 95% of your players into boring roles when you can fill those with NPCs? NPCs can patrol those safe waters. NPCs will take the boring trade runs. NPCs will be the mine-workers, the lumberjacks and the blacksmiths, while PCs will be the ones who find the rich veins of ore and establish the mines, the ones who manage the lumber mills and the master artisans who make the templates for their craftsmen to copy.

In Pirates of the Burning Sea, the human players are only a fraction of the total character population, but they are the most interesting fraction – the most powerful, the most wealthy and the most creative.

This philosophy also affects dynamic economies. Many MMP games now have player-economies based on crafters selling their goods. But because the population of these games is entirely PC-based, their economies break in strange ways. For instance, I’m a journeyman tailor, fresh off my apprenticeship, and trying to make my fortune in the world. I can make a mean pair of work pants, but fancy clothes are a bit beyond my reach still. The problem is, all the PCs in the game are the same level, or higher level than I am, and nobody wants work pants. In addition, there are a bunch of other tailors out there who – just like me – are trying to gain experience in crafting by making work pants.

Now if there are ten normal players to every one crafter, that means that each crafter can only make ten pairs of work pants until the entire market is saturated with pants. This situation is made worse because nobody actually buys the pants, so they never leave the market, and they are either sold for less than the construction cost, given away for free or are destroyed. Meanwhile, I’m going to keep making pants because that’s the only way that I get experience, which is what I’m really interested in anyway.

The problem with these games is they all assume that in order to have a player-driven economy, that the players must be the only consumers. This is incorrect. NPCs should be the main consumers of most of the ordinary goods in the game, so that there is a reliable market for basic consumer goods that novice PC crafters need to practice on. Items of higher quality and expense will find fewer NPC consumers, and will instead be bought by other players. But at that point the master craftsmen of the game have separated themselves from the hobbyists and the supply of these fine items will be lower to match the demand.

An economy with NPCs as consumers also means a more stable economy. Prices of goods will still vary based on player actions, but they will vary more slowly, and the characteristic price spikes and plummets that make trying to asses the value of a given object so infuriatingly difficult will be smoothed out. This leaves the power of change in the hands of the players, but also allows us a natural mechanism for solving the economic problems that always arise. As GMs, we control what the faceless hordes demand. We dictate whether they like tea or coffee, how much tobacco the elite consume per week, and how much they value European furniture.

So if one nation has a smaller population than the others, its ranks will be bolstered by NPC characters. They will fill roles in the navy, in trade companies and as independent captains. They’re not as dynamic as players, and they are less entertaining conversationalists, but that’s not why they’re there. This is the world in 1720, and even if Spain doesn’t have the bulk of the human players, it was the most populous empire in the West Indies, and it will have the navy and the merchants appropriate to its position.

-Taylor Daynes
Lead Designer

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:13 pm 
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Nice quotes X2.

*starts to feel pre-game hype building* A good player economy, what a concept.

now basing demand, on othe player actions, where a percentage of all lost ships are rebuilt by the npcs would be better. thus if a nation is getting beat on, then they will have increased demand for good and it would be worth dealign with those zones. it would force trade into those zones that are more contested or blocked. That would eb a great leap.

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Arindel wrote:
Nice quotes X2.
Thanks. I'm going through all the dev-logs from start to finish to get myself up to speed on the current situation (may take a few days!). I'll post up any quotes that seem interesting ie relating to gameplay. I personally find all the background development interesting, but if I quoted all that I'd be quoting everything!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:46 pm 
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on Missions:
Quote:
Night Cruise

09.26.03 by Rev

...

For the last few weeks, I have become an honorary programmer. (Well, maybe a dishonorary one.) I’ve learned how to work with the Lua scripting language and have been coding the scripts that generate our missions. The mission system has become a central feature of our game. It’s tied into reputation, international relations, the dynamic economy, naval rank, trade company standing, legal status, and probably some more things I’m forgetting about. At this point, it’s working pretty well. Each location in a port—taverns, magistrate offices, admiralties, etc.—can (if we want) generate its own unique set of missions. The parameters for those missions can vary as much as we like. At the Courthouse, there are delivery missions that improve your legal standing, pirate hunt missions that pay cold hard cash, and convict transport missions. The tavern offers passenger and cargo missions. The magistrate has letters that must be sent. And so on. Each of these locations has its own customized list of valid destinations and content. The magistrate usually sends letters and other items to other nearby ports of the same nation, correspondence between him and his counterparts. But at the tavern in the same town, you’ll find passengers interested in all manner of destinations.

A given location may offer several varieties of missions, and have up to a couple dozen missions available on any given day. Once a mission goes up at a location, it increases in Priority every day it goes unclaimed. If claimed and then failed, the mission goes back to that location with a higher Risk. The bigger the Priority and Risk numbers get, the more the mission is worth.

Some missions have deadlines. These are for short trips to nearby ports, and never run longer than a couple hours. If you complete the mission within the deadline, you get a sliding bonus based on how fast you pulled it off. If you miss the deadline, you can still complete the mission for the basic fee.

All missions have eligibility requirements. For cargo delivery missions, you need enough space in your hold for the goods and enough money to pay the bond, which you pay up front as a guarantee against the value of the cargo and which you get back when you complete the mission. For other missions, your legal status, naval rank, or company status is important. The magistrate won’t entrust his personal correspondence to criminal scum. But in the black market, where missions to sink specific military vessels are offered, they won’t deal with anyone who hasn’t already demonstrated a streak of the cur. Then there’s your responsibility rating, which is a very simple metric: the number of missions you’ve completed divided by the number of missions you’ve accepted. If you have taken on 45 missions and finished 32 of them, your responsibility rating is 71%. The more valuable the mission, the more responsible the captain must be. (We start you with 10/100, so your first few missions don’t wildly skew your ratio.) If you don’t meet the eligibility requirements for a mission, it appears in the listing grayed out. Examining it will tell you why you don’t qualify.

All players in a given location see the same mission list, which updates in real time. If you accept a mission, it leaves the board at once and no other players can take it. Across all locations in the game, there should be something on the order of 1,000 unique missions available at any time.

Players aren’t your only competition, however. NPC captains take missions, too, right from the same listings you’re looking at. If you see a mission you want, grab it quick! Fortune favors the bold.

Every single mission in the game can be accepted as a solo or group mission. If you have a group assembled and accept a mission as a group, we automatically divvy up the responsibilities among all players in that group. For a cargo delivery mission, the cargo gets divided among the merchant ships. Naval ships in your group are assigned escort duties. Each player is capable of independently completing his or her slice of the mission, but bonuses kick in as each additional player finishes. So if I’m the first ship to arrive at the destination, I get an instant reward. But as each additional captain from my group sails into port, I keep collecting additional bonuses, even if I’ve already left the group and sailed on my way.

When I decided to sail to Martinique, I accepted a bunch of missions from a tavern on Antigua that were all going to Saint-Pierre. I’ve got cargo and passengers to deliver, which should bring me quite a fine price upon my arrival. But for now I’m sailing onwards, across this vast and trackless sea soon to be populated with other adventurous souls.

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Interesting article on UI:
http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/article&article_id=10122

I'm not going to quote it as it's not directly relevant but there's some interesting info in there about SWGesk macros.


Ship to ship combat damage, Just read and dance for joy!:
http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/article&article_id=10127

Macros Part 1 (The pics aren't actually viewable in the original page so I can link to them here):
Quote:
Macros, Part 1

01.19.04 by Robespierre

Part 1 – the Pirates Of The Burning Sea internal macro system

First thing to know is, you do NOT need to know how to write macros to play PoBS. We are designing a wonderful user interface which you can use as-is, or customize by dragging windows around, resizing them, dragging buttons onto the toolbar, etc. If you love the idea of macros, dive right in. If you fear it, no pressure, just read on at your own pace. It is all optional knowledge!

Here is a one-paragraph summary of our internal macro system: You can use nearly any command in the command set. You can assign finished macros to toolbar buttons using the icon of your choice. You can use macros you write in much the same way as the built-in commands.

Really, if you have played SWG and used their macros, you have a decent idea of what ours will be like.
DISCLAIMER 1: The macro examples I am about to give are not guaranteed to work in the final (or even beta) version, because we may change command names, break commands into smaller bits, combine them, change the names of weapon batteries, change the names of shot types, etc. But I wanted to give you some concrete examples, so all of these are things you can do … well, ok, WE can do in the alpha today. DISCLAIMER 2: The art you are about to see is programmer art – no artist has yet touched it, and it is not at all final. I had to get special permission to leak a few UI bits to make my devlog clearer. No image ever dies once it hits the internet, but if you like us at all, don’t put these images on your site. Just link to them. Please!

OK, on to the good stuff.

What can a macro do? Well, it can do just about anything a player can do using a command, which turns out to be almost anything the player can do at all, especially at sea. Almost all the buttons in the game’s interface execute some kind of command behind the scenes. So, for example, the button to open and close the Inventory executes the command “/toggleWindow inventory”. Clicking on a specific gun battery is the same as “/selectbattery [name]”. Picking roundshot as the ammo type does “/setShotType roundshot”. All of this is done via pretty buttons (image 1), so if you don’t want to remember commands, you don’t have to! But when you want to write a macro, then the commands come in very handy.

The toolbar buttons also give you a handy way to learn the commands, since hovering the mouse over them brings up the associated command text.
Let’s say you want to create a macro to get away as fast as possible if things start to go wrong during a fight. You want get the sails up fast, and load the stern chasers with something properly discouraging. For me, Plan B is what I call the thing I do when things go wrong, so I would suggest making a macro called “PlanB” (note that a macro name cannot contain spaces).

/setSails Full
/setCrewPriority Sails Urgent
/selectBattery aft
/setAmmoType chainShot
/report Plan B is in effect!

The last line simply echoes the text to the command line. It is a handy way to give yourself a little confirmation that you pressed the right button. If you wanted to have it broadcast over the local-area chat channel, use “/say” instead. It all depends on whether you’re the kind of captain who likes to give warning to your buddies, or get a head start on the general retreat. For a compromise, try this added to the macro above.

/pause 10
/say I’m outta here!

Now you have given yourself 10 seconds of head start before you tell the world about your departure, and maybe saved more seconds just by having a macro instead of doing the four actions manually.

After writing a macro like this, and assigning it any of the available icons (I used the big “2” icon because the selection is kinda limited in our alpha code), you can now drag it to the toolbar to use like a regular command button. Or, you can type “/macro PlanB” in any chat window. In effect you have created your own custom command.

Here are a few dry facts … again specific numbers are subject to change before release:

Macro names are limit to 64 alphanumeric characters, no spaces or punctuation.
You may have 10 macro chains executing simultaneously.
A macro can call another macro via the toolbar (SWG-style) or directly using “/macro [name]”.
Macros are stored on the client machine in a single file. You can copy that entire file to a second machine if you upgrade your hardware or play in two different locations.
Macro total size limit is not yet defined, but will be over 1k characters.
So far the only prohibited command is /logout.

Coming soon: Part 2. Um, I guess that was kind of implied by the title of this one, eh?


EDIT:
Macros Part 2, Less useful but is informative:
Quote:
Macros Part 2

01.26.04 by Robespierre

Part 1 covered the core of the macro discussion, which is the now-implemented R1 (first release of the game) macro system for PoBS. Let’s continue with some related issues: external tools, and the future of our macro system.
External Macros, Bots, Hacks, Etc.

What about external macros? By this I mean any of the various tools that have been developed to automate, enhance, and yes even exploit the various current online games. Most of these are prohibited by the various EULAs (end-user license agreements) and yet continue to be popular with some players, reviled by others.
We have not yet come up with our EULA language for this, so I can’t write the final binding word on these tools. But I will devote a few paragraphs to the concept because the topic seems to naturally spring to mind when the word “macro” is used in conjunction with an MMORPG.

Once again, keep in mind that this is a general discussion, and our final EULA may have specific things to say about using external macro tools.

The short answer is we don’t think external tools will provide an excessive advantage because:

1)The rich internal macro language will reduce the incentive to use external macros.
2)Repetitive treadmill macros will be less needed and less useful.
3)All crucial calculations (hitting, damage, prices, sightings) are done on the server, so external tools will have no chance to improve results.
4)Because PoBS is a game of tactics and not reflexes, traditional client-side “bots” provide less advantage.

Point 1: The rich internal macro language will reduce the incentive to use external macros. Rather than be a cause for fear among the less technical players, the macro system outlined in Part 1 of this devlog should be a cause for joy. You can now access simple improvements by entering text from other players or from forums, or even dabble yourself. No need for complex languages, external tools, or EULA violations. External tools can still do more things, as outlined below, but a lot of basic tactics can be enhanced by a few macros instead of installing a 3rd-party, potentially-forbidden tool.

Point 2: Repetitive treadmill macros will be less needed and less useful. Many games have a long level treadmill, and such games do very well as commercial MMOs. I think there are basic human reactions to incremental improvement that these games draw upon. But that’s another devlog. In such games, many folks find ways to speed up the process, often using external tools. They also find ways to gather resources, perhaps taking advantage of some easy prey which they can kill without risk. Sure, it gains them only a little xp per kill, but what does that matter if you can run the macro all day? Some games – many games in fact – forbid the use of external tools for these activities. It undermines their perceived player retention, reduces a sense of fairness, and in some cases overloads their servers with AFK macro’ers.

We’re different. (Yeah, yeah, we’re all different) No, really, we are different in this specific way: compared to most MMORPGs, PoBS increases the importance of tactical decisions, and has less sheer grind involved in improving your character’s abilities. We do have some time-based aspects to the game. We’re trying very hard not to make those into a huge grind, because we do not intend to use a treadmill as a primary source of “content.” Our combat also has a LOT more human involvement—in theory PVP can happen at any time. Macros that can handle PVE combat will not be able to handle PVP. Our internal macros in PoBS, as discussed in Part 1 of this devlog, are tools to help you. Those macros can’t replace you, the player.

There are things you can’t do with our macros. There is no “branching” where a macro can make a decision based on things in the environment, like “if I missed my last broadside entirely, close range with the opponent.” It is possible that the very best macro writers can use the output of our logs to write clever, AI-like macros. I never underestimate the abilities of humans to innovate!

But I don’t think those macros will be as important, due to (a) a reduced need to grind and (b) a lot fewer places where you can PVE for hours at a time in total security. So, though I cannot make a definitive statement about the EULA yet, I do predict that people will find external macro tools a lot less useful for PoBS than for other games.

Point 3: All crucial calculations (hitting, damage, prices, sightings) are done on the server, so external tools will have no chance to improve results.

The client computer is a hostage to the player, and however normal the data from the client software sounds, we know it may be coerced. So, the server checks every command from the client. The server knows how fast you are going, and where you really are. All the client does is project those things in a nice smooth line (which works amazingly well so far). Ships over the horizon are not even known to your client computer. We are not claiming the game is hack-proof. What we do claim is that we’re working to ensure so that there is nothing on the client that will give you added advantages or extra information. This reduces the data that can be exposed via some third-party tool. If the client computer doesn’t know about it, a tool on that computer can’t expose it to the player.

Point 4: Because PoBS combat is primarily about tactics and not reflexes, traditional client-side “bots” provide less advantage.

A common external tool used in many tactical games is the “bot” of various flavors, etc. Unlike xp-grinding macros, these bots are intended to improve the combat effectiveness of the player by cybernetic intervention, using the local client computer to aim / jump / react in place of the player’s own coordination and reflexes. In PoBS, you are not aiming each cannon yourself, You decide when to fire, and what part of the opponent’s ship to aim for, and what ammunition to load … but your hand-eye coordination doesn’t decide if each round hits. The server does, taking into account all pertinent factors.

Some games depend on player speed to limit the frequency of certain actions. For example, in Unreal Tournament you can only fire certain weapons once every two seconds. But, you can fire a rocket, switch to a second weapon, fire it for two seconds, then switch back to the rocket launcher which has re-loaded for you. Of course, the best players have a macro for that, and don’t sit around waiting for a precious 2 seconds while they reload. We’re trying to make sure nothing works like that in PoBS. If you tell your crew to load guns AND change sails, you better have a lot of crew or both things will be done slower. Plus, tasks in sailing combat take longer than 2 seconds, so the advantage to a macro-writing player is “clarity of thought and command” more than simple reflexes.

In summary, for all those reasons, we’re not too worried about bots, speed hacks, map hacks, etc We think internal macros will improve the player experience, not turn into the focus of the game or a way for a subset of players to gain unbeatable abilities. And, last but not least, we have not yet written out the EULA which defines how we treat external tools.
The Future Of PoBS Macros

There are a few directions macros may take after R1. None of this is set in stone, and we may never do any of it, but it makes for interesting discussion. I’ll present these in order of likelihood, most probable first.

Small improvements like allowing comments in macros, providing a debug output window (so you can at least spot those typos when the window shows “command not found”), allowing simple parameters to macros (probably very DOS-batch-file like), etc.

An ability to detect simple things about the existing environment, with concepts like “current target” and “ships in my current group” being things you can access and use in a macro. This will further diminish the attraction of external macro tools that are log-driven, but before we do this we would consider the impact on gameplay for those folks who are not into macro-writing.

And finally, the ultimate macro interface: full access to the Lua language for complete client/UI customization.

Our client is written in Lua, with some support routines in C++, and of course the graphic engine is in C++, and shaders are written in a special language. Lua is an interpreted language, and Lua controls all the top-level UI bits: the display of the compass, the look of the buttons, the way the chat is displayed to the player.

The obstacles to exposing the Lua client are not so much traditional security worries, but rather making something that is robust enough that it can survive a user mod. I would expect that very few players would attempt a mod at this level. Our client is a very complex dashboard. We could expose the client entirely and not compromise security, BUT a modified client could become a huge source of customer support issues, and there are some legal issues to consider. Last, of course, we don’t want this to become a programmer’s war. We would need to consider any possible impact on the game before we give players the ability to full customize the game via Lua.

For all those reasons, this may be a long time coming, if ever. But hey, I told you, this was a glimpse of a possible future.

This ends my two-part devlog on Macros. Thanks for sticking with it to the end! I’m gonna go write some code now. I’m looking forward to your comments in the forums.

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Last edited by X2-PB on Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The mission system sounds good. That's one thing I think is weak in WoW. I'm tired of doing the same 4 or 5 things over and over and over again, just in a different setting. It will be interesting to see how it is implemented.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:35 pm 
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sounds very good, I like the macro system very useful especially in a game where you will have to worry about many factors...

Mission system sounds interesting and fun, obviously some worry about failing a mission and a buddy picking it up to get the higher payout...

Thanks to those guys who are pouring over this stuff and picking out the good stuff

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:38 pm 
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Dragon Fire wrote:
Thanks to those guys who are pouring over this stuff and picking out the good stuff
No Problems ...... I'm hooked!

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http://www.avian-gamers.net/forums/view ... 033#114033

That is a link to X2's post above. It is a good read concerning NPCs and economy.

Interesting how they balance the game world with NPCs. Also how NPCs are consumers, not just the players


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Yeah I like the NPC consumer bit too. I would assume that each NPC would have a set doubloon amount too so that one could not sell an assload of stuff to one NPC, effectively just dumping stuff. Kinda have it like Sid's Pirates where each merchant had a fixed amount of gold.

Either that or have a decreasing price the NPCs in a town would pay for items based on how many of each specific item are being flaunted around the town by players.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:39 pm 
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Bear in mind, though, that those quotes are three to four years old. I haven't got to posts on the current state of the game yet, but what I've posted there were certainly the initial plans.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:16 pm 
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X2 what link you are using to find dev posts? I may jump in and skip to the end of the book.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:22 pm 
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My best guess is here:
http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/dev_logs

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:36 pm 
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Thanks. I was looking in the forums - silly me :roll:

yikes. 16 pages of just links. Ok, got some reading to do!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:10 am 
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Yeah, I started at page 16, I'm now on page 8! That's after three days of reading!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:06 am 
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Just a FYI, A redesign of the game was done over the summer of 2004 (which, I believe was when it was originally slated for release). That may affect some of the info I've posted above.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:40 am 
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Well, I started at the beginning and am working backward. I must say, the Dev to community involvement is really stellar. two posts come to mind.

http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.ph ... e_id=10330
Quote:
Recently we had a meeting to discuss what the impact from a slip due to the retail distribution would mean for us – specifically, what we can do with the extra time it would give us. Some of that time will be used for additional stability and testing. But we also had an opportunity to add some elements of ‘extra fun’ to the game, and we could draw on the experiences of our players (you!) during beta as well as our own. We called this meeting …. FUNDERDOME. It all began with some threads on our beta forum talking about what was missing from the game, and a series of internal discussions to follow up on those threads. When people who are actually playing the game see issues, we pay attention: they’re the folks who are the most aware of what the game needs and doesn’t have.

We discussed 33 changes or additions we’d like to make to the game. Of those, we accepted about 15, many of which are fairly trivial. I’ll discuss a small sample of those that made it, and those that didn’t. Keep in mind that we think all 33 of these would make the game better, so even those that got cut have some goodness. What they failed to have was sufficient goodness-to-cost ratio to make the final list, or in some cases had ambiguous design issues which meant they are not ready for prime time.


http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.ph ... e_id=10309
Quote:
First, the game itself. Now that we’ve essentially finished coding the new features, we’ve been able to spend more time on bug fixing, performance, and polish. For example, the majority of the developers have been focusing on server improvements. ConCo has finally had the chance to replace the rank 1-15 missions (yay) and will be spending their time polishing up the encounter logic and the rest of the missions. Most exciting are the big new additions: Avatar combat and boarding combat. All of the new avatar combat missions are going in, as well as the boarding combat support. Our designers have been duking it out with one another with big boarding battles, and it looks like a lot of fun. We’re iterating very quickly on it, with daily status mails, real time bug fixing, and lots of attention. And the rest of the team is finally getting a chance to go back and just polish their work, and fill in placeholders.

What’s also helping us move so quickly is that we’ve also grown again. We’re up to 68 people. One of those people is a full time web developer, who’s in charge of implementing and rolling out our new web site. This has been a long time in coming, and it’s finally at hand. It’ll do a much better job of introducing a new visitor to the game, and also provide some fun resources, especially the new ship guide! It’ll take a little while to put up, and I expect Aether will have some update on its progress as we crank through it.

Another one of our new hires runs a full time usability/playability lab, where we bring in players to see what they think of the game. We’re also conducting tests of our new marketing materials, the new web site, etc. As you might expect, this kind of data is extraordinarily useful in fine tuning the game, and it’s extremely cool to watch our test scores constantly improving. The lab is on the second floor, which we’ve now completely moved into. We don’t anticipate leaving our current space until after we ship the game.


Quote:
So, if we go down the route of a big box release (though it’ll still be available via digital distribution) it will require a delay in the release date. I’m not excited about delaying the game, but I am excited about a great launch.

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http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.ph ... e_id=10313

Quote:
Part of what has taken so long is that I’m 100% dedicated to maintaining control of the game. That’s a very unique position in this industry, and honestly, I don’t think a contract like this has ever been done, so there’s a lot of education that has to occur. And while I know that the length of time is frustrating to our fans, Pirates is a long-term project for us. We have a lot of long-range plans for the game after we launch and we intend to be working on it for quite a few years. So I’m not going to rush a contract in order to “get it done” – it has to be done right.


Quote:
So here it is plain: We won’t be shipping in June.

However, we will be expanding the beta dramatically at the end of June. This coincides with us finally having the original version of the game that we expected to ship for R1. It’s a massive improvement over what’s in the beta now, with a lot of moving pieces all finally coming together. We’ll introduce it to our current beta folks, and assuming that goes well, we’ll start the process of inviting people in. Lots of people. This isn’t an open beta—we view that as entirely a marketing device and we still have serious, large-scale testing to do of the economy, the Conquest system, and other features. But it is a huge expansion of our beta population. Currently, to get into the beta, you have to either be crazy lucky or have a beta key. Now your odds will get a lot more reasonable.

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Where's my dev log summary posts? X2 you're fired!!!

j/k - just a long day at work :D

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:34 pm 
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Angelus wrote:
Where's my dev log summary posts? X2 you're fired!!!

j/k - just a long day at work :D
Hehe, I've been at work all day! Plus I've been preparing a presentation I have to do for a Job interview on Tuesday. Believe me, I'd much prefer to be reading PotBS Dev Logs! Although on the up side, work did involve me watching Pirates 3 another 2 times!

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X2-PB wrote:
Angelus wrote:
Where's my dev log summary posts? X2 you're fired!!!

j/k - just a long day at work :D
Hehe, I've been at work all day! Plus I've been preparing a presentation I have to do for a Job interview on Tuesday. Believe me, I'd much prefer to be reading PotBS Dev Logs! Although on the up side, work did involve me watching Pirates 3 another 2 times!


you still have that old job :)

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