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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:03 am 
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SWTOR – Your thoughts so far?

I want to know your thoughts so far. What do you like, what do you not like? Story line, class play, bugs, worlds, etc.

Bugs:
When I first logged in to Ord I saw a lot of bugs. NPCs that were stuck, or did not revert to their dead animation, etc. Over the weeks I feel like I don’t see much of that anymore.

Trooper:
I love my ranged combat with the trooper. I like the look of our armor starting around level 15 or so. I think TOR did a great job making mix-matched armor look good together. In wow I always looked like a hobo or a clown with my green boots, purple pants, yellow shirt, etc. My trooper for the most part looks cool.

Trooper story:
My story seems to start slow, but by the end of Ord they threw a twist at me that I did not see coming. This created a real wow moment for me, and I can see it as a cool basis for the story line throughout the rest of the game. I am playing good, trying to maximize light side and affection points with my goody two shoes companion. I am very curious how the bad guy choices would affect the story. I may play a bad smuggler or Jedi on an alt to see how much trouble that creates.

Trooper Healing:
I went commando with a major focus on healing. So far I am lvl 22 and I feel like my healing is weak. I cannot heal my companion faster than the mobs can dish out damage. So I am hoping this changes with more talent choices or patches.

Crafting:
Crafting so far seems cool. The armor I make seems to be much better than the loot drops. I was/am disappointed that I have 40+ schematics for boots and belts, but only 2 schematics for chest armor. I am fond of the orange items with their many mod slots... which are quest rewards or purchased form NPCs. I don’t know if these are craft-able. This makes me wonder if the mod crafters are going to be the rich guys in the SWTOR economy. In Wow I always felt like my crafting lagged behind my level, meaning that I rarely crafted anything that was better than what was already dropping. The things I crafted were good for my alts, but rarely good for that character. In TOR I had to stop crafting because I was making so many things that were many levels above my level. I like how I am finding my stuff useful.

Game play:
This game feels very solo with a few forced group heroic locations on each map. I am wondering how easy it feels in a fulltime group. Maybe you mow them down and it’s still fun. I can’t wait to see.

Datacrons:
These things ruin my play. When I see one I want to get it, but the way you get it is 180 drgrees from the way you play the rest of the game. I go from mowing down bad guys to spending hours jumping up flat walls, and squeezing through cracks, and all that. If it was a maze to get the datacrons that required you to walk through the world normally that would be cool, but double jumping up trees and walls with my face one millimeter from the wall stuck in the falling animation as move around is emersion breaking. I feel like I was exploring the world more when I was fighting. When I am trying to clime to that datacron I not exploring the world, I am looking for the glitches in the terrain, and the hidden ledges. I am out of the world, and into the polygons.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:47 pm 
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My thoughts so far...

Bugs: Run across a few every now and then, nothing game breaking, some graphical glitches (mostly on Tattoine)

Story: My Gunslinger is up to 34. Loving my story. This is a great mix of MMO / RPG story driven gaming. I can chat and play with friends, or do my own thing that feels very real and important to my character. I likes it.

My Class: I can dish out DPS really well. I would love to work more with actual player tanks, as my companions leave something to be desired. I am approaching the point of having too many skills, which is wierd. I have a rotation that I like, but I feel like I am not being a good gunslinger if I don't use all my skills... still working on that.

Crafting: Love it. The interplay of mods and crafted items and such seem very interesting. I like the mission system, and I like cueing up my minions with work while me and Bowdaar go out and crack skulls. Good times.

Overall: Having a blast. I am finding that if you run all missions on all planets, you will out level your class quests if you aren't careful. That isn't neccesarily a bad thing, just a thing. I hated Taris, not sure why, but really didn't like that planet. Liked Tat, loved Nar Shadda (due, I am a smuggler). Skipped most of Alderaan except for my class quest, might go back after I finish the bonus stuff on Nar Shaada.

Looking forward to making more alts. The stories are engaging and fun. Never been able to say that before in an MMO.

Wish you guys would all play more, hehe.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:46 pm 
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Bugs: I haven't noticed that many, but one I definitely have noticed is that sometimes if you use an ability that knocks an enemy back or down, they can get stuck in any objects nearby. An example of this are all the big, bulky computer terminals in a lot of the quest buildings.

Story: The Consular story is kinds interesting in how simple yet somewhat intriguing it is. At first glance it sounds like it is going to be boring, but the way Bioware presents it and throws monkey wrenches into things makes it very playable.

Jedi Consular: My consular is probably by far my favorite of my characters. It is by far the one I have played the most, and I like it enough that I probably won't play any other alts until I've hit max level. Even then I will probably play my consular more than anything. I like specifically how Bioware has put together a fairly successful combination of a melee fighter and a mage.

Jedi Shadow: Let's be honest here: being a shadow is probably my favorite part of being a consular. Heck, you are basically a rogue/mage who is versatile in combat. Their light armor doesn't seem to be much of a hindrance though because they can put out a decent amount of damage. From my experience in Warzones bounty hunters are especially easy to take down with a shadow because at level 16 I could take down a level 20 or 22 BH.

Crafting: I really like how the crafting system has been used in this game because of the fact that you no longer have to take the time to gather mats or make whatever it is you want to make. Now you can simply open the companion window and set someone to work doing something, and you don't have to take time out of questing. That's why I never got far with professions in WoW; I would always get lazy with gathering mats because questing was always so much more fun.

Gameplay: I have enjoyed playing every class I have made so far, both in betas and in actual release, and I look forward to seeing how the story lines unfold.

Datacrons: Every now and then I see people asking about where to find datacrons in certain maps. I personally don't care about them. If I see the beam of light coming off of the top of one, I'll try to get to it. Otherwise I would rather play the game and not worry about it later. Maybe once I hit max level I'll go find 'em, but not now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:06 pm 
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One more thought on crafting: I don't care for how Bioware made it cost you money to send companions on missions. Sure it's realistic, but man it burns through your pocket like none other.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:51 pm 
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I just "discovered" (more likely remembered) that the level cap for SWTOR is currently 50. This causes me great concern.

My smuggler is a sliver of a bar away from level 28. I play very, very casually, and really feel like I'm just getting started with this game. If I were to compare it to WoW, I'd say I was done with the starting area outside of IronForge and done with Loch Modan, and am getting my feet wet in the Wetlands (bad pun that just came out, completely unintended).

Basically, I feel like I'm just getting started. At the rate I feel like I'm progressing, I would guess that the level cap would be at least 70. I've never had a level capped toon in WoW at any stage of the game. I think the progression in SWTOR is massively off kilter, unless the leveling starts to really, really level off and take forever, and I'm not looking forward to that if that is the case. I would guess I spend at most 10-15 hours a week currently playing SWTOR. For me, that is quite a bit of time.

From what I've seen, SWTOR isn't one of the games where the end-game content is the "real" game. The missions are what BioWare wants you to do and spent so much time and money on with the voice acting. I find myself routinely skipping them because I outlevel missions and planets. There is a lot of content I haven't seen.

The crafting and loot systems seem a bit out-of-step as well. Until I got some armor from Manti and DF, my companions were running gear 10+ levels lower than I was. I'm still running a pair of level 19 pants on Corso, and until I got more armor from Mant and DF, I don't think he'd ever had a pair of gloves. Granted, I'm not doing armor crafting, and I haven't been doing all that much crafting since I'm trying to save for the huge credit sinks of training and speeders. However, in WoW, even if you never crafted anything or purchased anything on the AH and only armed yourself from loot, you'd be OK. You'd be underpowered and undergeared by a few levels, but nothing that was a big deal. For me, at level 25, I was having extreme difficulty killing level 25 standard and strong mobs and would die quite a bit. I'm guessing I'm undergeared because I've skipped too much content, but I don't really feel the need to play a bunch of stuff that I've outlevelled. Sometimes mowing down mooks is fun, but generally I'd like to have to "play" the game a little and think, have a challenge, etc. At least have to figure out an efficient pattern of skill usage.

I fear that this game's survival rate may be pretty low. I see myself having 8 max level toons before an expansion ever comes out. I don't see how they can have an expansion anytime soon either, with all the voice acting that has to go into it. Blizzard could slap a location together, have a mob walk on a rail track, and have some typed text show up and suddenly you had a bunch of quests and stuff to do. Getting scripts, someone to read them, edit the takes/sound, etc, will take 20 times longer. There is no way they'll be able to have the content of a traditional MMO.

Combine all this with the complete lack of explorability in this game. SWG had the best exploration of any game I've ever seen. Getting a group of folks together for a "safari" style hunt and camp to go sightseeing and play tourist was amazing fun. Seeing stuff from the movies like Jabba's palace or R2/C-3PO's escape pod crash was terrific.

In WoW, exploring zones, especially ones that were too high a level for you, checking out what was just over the horizon and discovering things was great. It was an adventure.

In SWTOR, you hop on your speeder transport, get wizzed by some pretty amazing looking scenery, to some small little corner where you do your thing, run down the hallway, check something out, run back, get wisked off traveling by some other cool looking stuff to your little corner, repeat. I get that the Star Wars universe doesn't have a lot of "wilds" to explore and most stuff has already been done, but it is still a big galaxy. I don't really feel like I'm getting to see it.

One of the nice things about this game is the sheer level of expandability they have. They could have 1000 expansions just dealing with Coruscant alone and not run out of stuff to see or do. I just don't know if they'll ever be able to get content created fast enough to keep people interested.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:21 pm 
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^^ This ^^

My first impressions with TOR were very, very, good. The voice acting was great. The story lines were great. I was having lots of fun, with many different characters I might add. Now, I don't feel the burning desire to log in whenever I can.

What changed you ask? It doesn't feel like an MMO. My MMO-style interactions thus far have primarily been through GTN buying and selling. I have done one flashpoint (Black Talon) with my 31 BH. One. Uno. There must be at least 3 or 4 others in that level span that I did not experience. Could I have? Yes. But there is no big draw to do so. Sure seeing each instance and its story would be fun, and there's the social pts accumulation thing (tho jury is still out how good social gear actually is), but getting gear from the runs is not a priority. I feel that I am well geared just through quest rewards and the odd splurge on the GTN (after saving up for my mount). I don't even craft my own stuff.

TOR feels like easy mode. Without bypassing content, it is very easy to over level quest lines, thus making combat trivial

I dunno. Maybe it's my more casual gaming style (due to playing time constraints) that is causing my disheartening feelings towards TOR. Maybe MMOs just don't do it for me any more. Maybe Bioware simply made a MMO that is more like a single player experience but with added massive social functionality as an added option. I love the stories. I love the combat (at least when equal rank or taking on baddies higher than you). But I just don't get the sense of accomplishment like I did in the previous MMOs I put decent amounts of time into (SWG and WoW).

As this point, I am debating if I will resub once my 3-months prepaid is up.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:36 pm 
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See, and I've never had a more fun dungeon experience than in SWTOR. When a few of us ran Athliss together and I was primary healer, it was challenging, difficult, and a ton of fun. I never got that same feeling in WoW. It was nicely balanced. Boss fights were lengthy, but not so long that I got bored and felt it was just a button pressing cycle. Perhaps it was because it was new and we were figuring it out as we went. We didn't know the "strategy" going in.

However, I also leveled almost twice in the dang instance, making further questing even more redundant and boring. I used to try and run through the daily space missions on lunch because I could do them in the time allotted and didn't have to waste time traveling. I stopped doing that as soon as I realized I was outleveling content.

Let me rephrase that. I stopped playing the game to enjoy the remainder of the game. BioWare has accidentally made it a priority for me to not play aspects of their game as it ruins the function of the game. That is seriously problematic, and will only train users to not pay, not renew. They have no choice but to fix the leveling in the game. I don't think they can at this point, and they are going to have some serious issues.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Mostly agree with Pete.

The only part I don't agree with is the statement on the dungeons. While the little stories were neat, the boss fights were just extended version of mob fights. The one boss in Athiss that required any semblance of strategy was the final boss, and that was basically 'run from flaming ball of death'.

Everything else stated is spot on. I'm massively undergeared right now, and I think it's because I stayed on Taris until it was finished. So now, at 28, i'm having a hard time killing a 25 Strong. Without a companion, I wouldn't be able to. The XP gains need to slow down, or they need to retool the questing to be like old style WoW(do a few quests, move to another zone, quest, come back to original zone and finish).

Also, to no fault of Bioware, I think i'm tiring of the end-game mindset of MMO's. I still sub to WoW, but I don't play the gear up game anymore. Seems like every 4 months for the past 5 years i've ground out reps, or honor, or bosses to gear up. DO NOT WANT.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:29 pm 
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And now for a bit of philosophy....

Have any of you guys read Designing Virtual Worlds by Richard Bartle (that's Richard Bartle of Bartle Test fame and one of the fathers of the MMO genre)? If not, I'd recommend you give it a go. It's a bit old now and most of the examples are from text MUDs but a lot of the concepts still apply.

One of the central concepts presented in the book is that a player of an MMO is on a Hero's Journey (note this is the player, not the character the player is playing although they generally have one too!). In order for a journey to do its job, it must have a conclusion. An ever expanding MMO that continually raises the level cap, prevents this conclusion from occurring and so ultimately becomes unsatisfactory.
[/philosophy]

The way I saw the design of SWTOR, the idea was that you can progress purely by doing the class missions and, as such, the XP generation is geared towards that. If you try to do everything, explore everything and do all the missions, by the very nature of the game, you're going to be overleveling. If you want a continuous challenge from 0-50, just do the class quests. There's nothing wrong with maxing out a character, deleting that character and starting again to gain a different experience.

For my part, I like overleveling. It gives me the ability to explore on my own terms without being continually frustrated by dying. I completed just the class quests on Coruscant so that I could get my ship as quick as possible. The boss fight at the end was really difficult. I died several times and I found it really frustrating. I hated it! I'm more interesting in the story part than watching myself being respawned multiple times. Now I've got my ship, I've gone back and I'm exploring all the content in Coruscant, taking all the missions. I fully intend to be 4-5 levels higher than I need to be when I start Taris.

With the loot gear being underleveled. To a certain extent, I think that's intentional. If you only needed to use looted gear, there would be no market for player crafting. Sure, it may need a bit of balance but this game has only been out a month. And, quite frankly, it's in a far, far better state after that one month than any other MMO has been at this stage, that I'm aware of. WoW has had nearly 10 years to get to the state that it's currently in. That's an awfully high bar, for a new MMO to be compared with.

I also think we've been under-valuing the social aspects of the game. In SWG, we wasted away many hours just sitting around in cantinas, chatting. In SWTOR, I've wasted away many hours exploring all aspects of the map. On Tython, in particular, I went off the beaten track all over the place just to see what's there and to look at the scenery.

Lastly, there is a LOT of potential here. If it's this good to start with, think how great it will be in a year's time. Don't write it off just yet!

This post may have been a little disjointed. There were a few points I wanted to make but haven't had too much time to think about how to say them. Hopefully you've got the gist of what I'm trying to say! Plus, Bartles book is over an inch thick. Trying to summarise it is nigh impossible!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Antan, I tried just doing the class quests, and very quickly you are under-leveled and cannot complete them. You can do only class quests for your starting planet, generally. After that, you must do the other quests or your class quests are too high of a level for you to even attempt. I specifically tried doing that with my Smuggler at first. It was cool running around on Coruscant at level 8 or 9 doing my class quests, but I rapidly had difficulty even navigating to my quests because the surrounding mobs would aggro from so far away and would tear me apart so quickly, let alone actually do any combat at the class quest destination as required.

I'm also OK with the gear being under-level as well, for the reasons you specifiy, if the crafting seemed a little better. I actually don't care for it all that much. I don't like the mission system very much at all. I'd like it better if you had some variety and some strategic planning to it, or even if it let you send companions on long-term missions, possibly for cheaper missions or perhaps for greater returns or something.

The auction house is also a mess. It is difficult to search for items you are looking for, either by slot, stat, or name. The required categories are too vague, and there isn't any way to then focus searches. You can't hit tab to navigate between fields. It is difficult to price goods for sale because of the difficulty in searching.

As far as the story arc, endings, and such, I agree. I also think this game does it better than anyone else because of the voice acting and the mini-story-arcs for your quests and class quests. I wouldn't mind if, instead of just raising the level cap, you had to make a new character that was an offspring or relative of your other toon, tie it into the legacy system somehow, and have another character arc for the story, carrying on the family mission or whatever. That would be a great way to keep things fresh and have a true story that ends while keeping the game rolling and the expansions coming.

I really like the game, overall. Long term, they have a TON of work to do. I do think the WoW launch was better, with a more balanced game and more systems in-place at launch. They also had their share of bugs, but it was a very successful MMO right out of the box.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:04 am 
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I cannot do just class quests. I am addicted to the quest rewards for the deep world quests. You can get some great orange items from the heroic and bonus series quests. I use world commendations to buy mods and orange gear, the mods keep my orange gear leveled up. There are so many quests on Tatooine that you can do AFTER your story takes you away from Tatooine.

About datacons, once you see how they do it online it is not so bad. Try to get the ones on Taris, Coruscant, and Tatooine without cheating! I don’t mind it much anymore now that you can get hints online.

This is silly, but I miss it. I miss the animated loading screen that WoW had. Just made it feel over-the-top.

Right now, my biggest complaint is that it’s too easy even when soloing. Heroics and flashpoints are the only time I need help. I have a static group going with my wife, we plow through the game world and it’s WAY TOO EASY. I almost wish the difficulty scaled with group size, and dropped better loot as a result, like Diablo did.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:26 pm 
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I got a few hours to be in game this past weekend. Got my BH from 31 to 34 and tried the following:
- focus on class quest chain until the next in line was red (presumably meaning the quest is next to impossible to do solo)
- do other planet quests until class quest becomes orange (or maybe yellow if you went crazy with planet quests and had a bunch of turn ins at the same time)
- continue class quest line
- rinse & repeat

I found this approach to work quite well. Mobs generally were still relatively easy to dispatch without breaking too much of a sweat but that appears to be the norm in TOR. However, you did have to be careful on pulls and watch for patrols as then it became quite tough (as it should). I intentionally threw caution to the wind a few times just to see how much I could handle. Turns out a lot. Still beats overlevelling in my books though.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:59 pm 
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My smuggler Parick is a scoundrel focusing in healing. It seems to make a huge difference in how much I can dish out and take. Questing at my level is very, very difficult for me.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Here is a quick update.

So far I still like my trooper story. I am a completion-ist and have tried to do all the quests on each world, including the bonus series that come up when your story allows you to leave the current world. However I for the first time I had the desire to get my legacy so I zipped through alderan only doing the class quests. Story is still great, will see what’s in store for me after my shore-leave.

My smuggler got his ship back last week. I guess he was very close for a long time now, but I began playing my Jedi and my Trooper. X2 helped me blast my way through the works one day, then the next day I was flying around in my ship before I knew it.

My Jedi Consular is a lot of fun. I play here in a static group with my wife. Wish I got to play her more, my wife is turning into an old lady with “Responsible” things getting in the way of her game time. Even at low levels my Consular could wipe out mobs much faster than my wife’s Knight. I find grouping up makes encounters too easy. We can mow down countless mobs without even trying. Our only problem is we jump into battle after battle without a concern and sometime we forget to heal.

Last week I did some space missions for the first REAL time. I did some before but last week I made it a purposeful effort. I was a critic of the “on rails” space missions back in the development days. I have to say that I enjoy the space missions now. It’s a fun mini game that doesn’t take much time to knock a mission out.

I also did some PVP for the first time last week. It was a lot of fun too. I like how you can queue up from your HUD. And you can automatically re-queue up for the next battle. I wish the downtime between matches was faster, but maybe it’s because I am playing in a time zone 9 hours ahead of you guys. The Empire kicked our but each time, but I still had a lot of fun.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:50 am 
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I really echo the lack of "wilds" to explore. I think the storyline ARE great, but I can't just follow them all the time, I need a break.

I do find, same as Parick (Cetera) as a healing Scoundrel I'm having a bit of a tough time with Tatooine at this level. However my options are kinda limited. I suppose I could try Alderaan, but I was hoping to occupy myself on Tatooine, and I can't seem to find something to do. I have run all the space missions several times, and another gripe I have is that even here I'm lost as to what my rewards are. I've seen the one commendation vendor on the station, but there's not much to pick from. Battlegrounds are actually pretty good, Huttball aside, but that only distracts me for so long either.

I WANT to love this game. But right now I'm back to Skyrim for a while to hopefully invigorate my interest.

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