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 Post subject: How does SWTOR stack up?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:33 pm 
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I'd like to use Antan's globally-broadcast stage to take a look at SWTOR and how it compares to some of our recent fascinations; well, recent if you count the past - omg - nearly ten years! Any and all input is welcomed!

For each aspect of the game, I'll include a section for SWTOR, WoW and SWG. The SWTOR section is where I'll drop in a few lines reflecting my thoughts and impressions of SWTOR in that particular area. The following WoW and SWG sections will be where I compare SWTOR to each of the other games.

Gameplay
Star Wars: The Old Republic

I'm considering gameplay here as the general act of moving through and interacting with the world the gamemakers have built for us. Interacting with objects, NPCs, vehicles, environmental details and effects are all fair game.

  • Spoken interactions with EVERYBODY has proven itself to be dramatically effective at immersion. I find myself very involved in each new story I encounter. Note the pointed use of 'new.' I played the smuggler storyline during the beta and now that my Jedi Knight is in Coruscant I find myself skipping through the scripted story sequences. Why? I think it has a lot to do with the fact that it is far easier for me to remember spoken details than it is for me to remember story details I read. Or it's because there are not all that many quests we go through on our way up the level ladder. In any case, I really, really like the voiceacting and find it very effective. I'm looking forward to playing every class this game has to offer.
  • Moving through the world seems easy enough but I've heard a lot of complaining about how long it can take to get from place to place. So far, I've found there to be more than enough scenery and combat to keep the trip from being boring. The fast travel options and taxis are handy but I think a part of why people are unhappy with moving around has more to do with quest design. More on that in the Questing section below.
  • Understanding what kind of enemy I'm up against seems like it should be easy enough based on the color of the band around their portrait and what symbol said band bears. However, I can't say that the alleged indicator is consistent enough with the difficulty presented by the mob. I've smoked gold-enclosed elites with ease and then been blown away by silver-ringed mobs. Or maybe my understanding of their system isn't accurate. If that's the case, they need to have a little more exposition on that particular detail. Or I need to be smarter. :P

World of Warcraft
  • General - What can I say? I've been tooling around Azeroth for so many years now, I know it as well as my childhood bike trails. WoW has become so very familiar and second nature, of course, anything else is going to feel foreign, at least at first. I found I had little trouble adapting WoW habits and patterns to TOR. TOR has a lot of 'ease-of-use' things going for it that, regardless of whether or not they were ripped off from WoW, they make the game much more approachable and the learning curve that much easier to navigate.
  • Finding stuff - The map-based indicators of where you need to go to find quest targets is a huge bonus. WoW didn't originally have that and it was a mod that first offered that type of functionality.
  • Mobility - With travel forms and mounts that you get to (seemingly) real quickly, makes the WoW game world feel smaller.

Star Wars Galaxies
  • Gotta say I really miss the sandbox. Gameplay offered a lot possibilites, some of which were as simple as 'live a day in the life of someone in this galaxy.' As fun and exciting and whoo-hoo-inducing as playing SWTOR can be, it doesn't completely conquer the freedom SWG offered.

Advantage: TOR


Crafting
Star Wars: The Old Republic
  • I'm very much a noob on TOR crafting but it seems pretty straight-forward: send companions out on missions/collect from nodes as you encounter them, make stuff, then do stuff to them (salvage, etc)

World of Warcraft
  • Ingredient 1 + 2 + 3 = Item A
  • /repeat
  • /yawn

Star Wars Galaxies
  • Ooooooh, baby.
  • SWG's crafting remains the gold standard for crafting. It was a subgame within a game that catered to certain types of players. There was a game that was released a while back called Mortal Online that really caught my attention because of it's crafting. It apparently offered flexibility to create unique weapons (graphically and statistically) based on handle style size and type, blade size and type and position. The game kinda fell off my radar because of issues it apparently had but it's been the only game that's offered any kind of competition to SWG's crafting. Compared to SWG's Mona Lisa, TOR's crafting is paint by numbers.

Advantage: SWG


Combat
Star Wars: The Old Republic
  • Tons, tons, tons of fun. I feel like a bad@$$ when, as Mantison put it, I fly through the air and cut through doors. The whole Jedi experience has been everything I hoped it would be. The use of Force Compel in interactive sequences only heightens the fun of the role. Combat vs. lightweights is fast and furious, with much hacking and slashing. Building focus isn't distracting but does force me to pace my delivery of lusty, lightsabery lopping of heads. Boss fights are sometimes a little boring because I seem to blow through my focus real quickly and then have to build it up again in order to unleash more devastating fun. It's not a gamestopper and I suspect I'll gather more focus-generating moves as I levelup...I hope.
  • Ok, above was based on my experience as a Jedi Knight. I also have an Imperial Agent and a Trooper - both are similarily fun, interesting and exciting. In their own way, they are every bit as much fun, I just feel myself drawn to the Jedi. I may add more to my experiences with the other classes as time passes but for now, the Jedi is my focus.

World of Warcraft
  • Combat in WoW is also, fun and fast-paced, especially with Cataclysm. Each game has their own strengths in combat and I find both games to have combat that is a lot of fun.

Star Wars Galaxies
  • Wellllll, lessee, where to start... ;)
  • There was a part of the queuing up actions that I kind of liked, but it did tend to make combat a little tedious.

Advantage: TOR (possibly winning out over WoW because it's new)



Questing
Star Wars: The Old Republic
  • The immersion presented by the game, largely due to the voiced and scripted story and quest sequences is amazing. When I first heard about TOR's voice acting, I classified it as a novelty. But, having experienced it, I have to admit being turned into a fan.
  • Many of the stories they tell are intriguing, while some do boil down to nothing more than 'kill X/find Y'. That's not a complaint, there are limits. I find the quests to be engaging and fit very well in the world, not to mention the over-arching story Bioware is telling us.
  • Earlier, related to movement through the game, I suggested that the hurdle of moving around the world was a bit of a problem. This small issue is made larger by the way quests are designed. It feels, from time to time, that I do a lot of extra and maybe unnecessary running around in the process of collecting, completing and turning in quests. If I have to cross the map to turn in a quest that results in another quest that takes me right back to where I was originally, I get frustrated because I have to wade back through mobs I just killed to get to my target. There are some mechanics that could possibly be implemented to alleviate some of that tedium but I need to emphasize that this is not a huge problem for me, just an annoyance that I encounter a few times during each play session. Who knows, it could just be that I'm not looking closely enough for quests before taking off on a run to complete some!

World of Warcraft
  • Cataclysm quests are much more entertaining, in general, than vanilla WoW quests. Blizzard developed dramatically in this area over the years but they, too, still have their fair share of 'collect x Y's for Z' type quests hanging around despite the facelift that came with WoW 4.0.
  • Blizzard has done a great job of streamlining questing. They make it easy to collect a bunch of quests, complete them and then turn them in. This is a good thing and something that TOR has done pretty well but I do find that I end up doing some running back and forth with TOR and I don't have to do much of that in WoW. A mechanic that WoW has implemented that I'd like to see TOR adopt is wireless communication. A number of times, my character has been given a device of gnome- or goblin-design which is used to contact the quest-giver which advances the quest line while I'm still in the field and ready to kill or do whatever he needs me to do.

Star Wars Galaxies
  • Heh, I have to admit that I did not do all that much questing or at least don't remember many details of it. Any input you guys may have for this part is most welcome.

Advantage: WoW


Source Material
Star Wars: The Old Republic
  • There are a few books set in this period, isn't there? I can't say I've read or watched anything in this era. Anyone?

World of Warcraft
  • A bunch of books have been written set in Azeroth, most are in the general era of the game. Who knows what the movie will bring.
  • It should be noted that many of the books were written after WoW was released and that the largest chunk of lore that WoW had to accommodate was from the RTS. Bliz was and continues to be completely in control of the lore surrounding their own original IP.
  • I can't say I've found the WoW lore to be particularly exceptional. It's fun to read about the things I've seen and experiences in-game but the stories aren't cutting-edge literature.

Star Wars Galaxies
  • Oh dear...movies, comics, dozens (hundreds?) of books and terabytes of frightening fan fiction.
  • While it may seem desirable to have this much source material to draw from, I think this very thing was a part of the reason SWG failed. There was so much material not only to draw upon, but also to live up to, to include, to roll into the experience. It set the bar awfully high for LucasArts and SOE to live up to.
  • C'mon...they have the trilogy!

Advantage: SWG

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"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Rocklar wrote:
Crafting
Star Wars: The Old Republic
  • I'm very much a noob on TOR crafting but it seems pretty straight-forward: send companions out on missions/collect from nodes as you encounter them, make stuff, then do stuff to them (salvage, etc)

***
Star Wars Galaxies
  • Ooooooh, baby.
  • SWG's crafting remains the gold standard for crafting. It was a subgame within a game that catered to certain types of players. There was a game that was released a while back called Mortal Online that really caught my attention because of it's crafting. It apparently offered flexibility to create unique weapons (graphically and statistically) based on handle style size and type, blade size and type and position. The game kinda fell off my radar because of issues it apparently had but it's been the only game that's offered any kind of competition to SWG's crafting. Compared to SWG's Mona Lisa, TOR's crafting is paint by numbers.

Advantage: SWG
As good as the crafting in SWG was, it did have a fatal flaw (other than the fact they never fixed the bugs). The crafters at the top of the tree could always make the lower level items to a better quality than the lower level crafters. This pushed those crafters out of the market and so it was only a worthwhile endeavour once you'd got to the top. The crafting in TOR may be simple, but at least the lower level crafters have as much chance of selling their goods as anyone else.

TOR's crafting does need some improvements, though, if it's ever going to become a major part of the game. It's currently easier to just equip yourself through loot. And, of all the people I've spoken to, I seem to be the only one really making money selling stuff!

Rocklar wrote:
Source Material
Star Wars: The Old Republic
  • There are a few books set in this period, isn't there? I can't say I've read or watched anything in this era. Anyone?
Pretty much all the source material for this period derives from KotOR and, to a lesser extent, KotOR 2. More or less everything has been Bioware generated, which, of course, is the reason they picked the time period in the first place. There are a few books and comics that have been commissioned for background. I plan to pick up most of these at some point.

_________________
X2-PB

Pathfinder Kingmaker Campaign:
Gednan Malithanar - Wizard (1)
Dukin Thunderstrike - Ranger (1)

Star Citizen: - https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/
AntanKarmola on their forums

Star Wars: The Old Republic: - Not really playing
Antare Karmola - Jedi Guardian (32)
Antan Karmola - Jedi Shadow (21)
Arianae Karmola - Gunslinger (20)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:23 pm 
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X2-PB wrote:
Pretty much all the source material for this period derives from KotOR and, to a lesser extent, KotOR 2. More or less everything has been Bioware generated, which, of course, is the reason they picked the time period in the first place. There are a few books and comics that have been commissioned for background. I plan to pick up most of these at some point.


If anyone develops or discovers a definitive lore list for TOR, please post it here!

My favorite way to pass time when I'm traveling for work is to read lore related to the game I'm currently playing. Makes those long layovers or delays pass so much more quickly!

_________________
Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Rocklar wrote:
If anyone develops or discovers a definitive lore list for TOR, please post it here!

The list in this thread may be useful: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=224858

_________________
X2-PB

Pathfinder Kingmaker Campaign:
Gednan Malithanar - Wizard (1)
Dukin Thunderstrike - Ranger (1)

Star Citizen: - https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/
AntanKarmola on their forums

Star Wars: The Old Republic: - Not really playing
Antare Karmola - Jedi Guardian (32)
Antan Karmola - Jedi Shadow (21)
Arianae Karmola - Gunslinger (20)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:14 pm 
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I would say this review should be set as a standard for how reviews should be made in this guild.
Of course, one need to find comparable games.

Permission to use this for a not so far away review of ST:O now that it is F2P...?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Help yourself, Azzameen!

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Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Installing the game.




hihihohohorahahahehehuhu

[EDIT] 1 hour later. Patching.
Eating lasagna

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Madson wrote:
Woo hoo! another laptopper like me! Wow that sounded wierd just now...


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