Avian Gamers Network

http://www.flyinglab.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25003
Answers from isildur (Dev)



At launch, the latter.




No, it's not finite.




You keep your structures. Using them is much more expensive, however.




Nope.




There is a weekly upkeep cost. Failing to pay it just causes the structure to become 'shuttered', making it unusuable. You get it back as soon as you pay the upkeep.



There really aren't 'inferior' and 'superior' structures (note that this is not precisely true, but it's generally true). If you want to replace a structure, you demolish the old one, and build the new one.




I already wrote one; it's basically still correct, although some minor details have changed since then.

_________________
"I built me a bomb and dropped it on every MFer who got in my way!"

Another post Isildur replied to later in the thread.


I've tried to ensure that no port has all the resources it needs to do anything major. There's one exception, and it's in the ass end of nowhere, so I left it there to make the port a little more attractive.




Um... let's see.. this is hard. I'll edit the post shortly with the answer.

Edit: Ok, here you go. This might not be 100% accurate, and it may change before launch, but it will give you some insight into the oak part of shipbuilding. This doesn't include teak or fir, both of which are also needed.

1 (barrels for wine)
1 (barrels for rum)
12 (blocks for rigging)

40 (keel)
8 (stem)
144 (large frame timbers)
16 (small frame timbers)
40 (large transom)
320 (large beam)
20 (small beam)
110 (oak planks)
60 (oak strakes)
420 (large filling-frame)
10 (small filling-frame)
8 (small transom)

So a total of 1210 units of oak. They're harvested in lots of 10.



Only France and the pirates start with ports that can grow grapes.




Luxury goods. They're often useful in recipes as well, but Europe wants refined sugar, cochineal, cacao, coffee, tobacco, and so forth. You can trade these kinds of goods to a European Trader for other, possibly more useful goods, such as gunpowder, cannons, teak, and so forth. It's generally cheaper overall to produce that stuff yourself, but the European Traders give you a bit more flexibility.




Recipes either come as part of building the structure, or they're found as loot drops. I used to have a recipe-crafting mechanic (a 'researcher' structure) but it was actually pretty stupid, so I removed it.




Call 'em whatever you like.


Guess we have to be pirates so that I can have access to my wine right off the get go [/b]

_________________
"I built me a bomb and dropped it on every MFer who got in my way!"

Or French

_________________
X2-PB

Pathfinder Kingmaker Campaign:
Gednan Malithanar - Wizard (1)
Dukin Thunderstrike - Ranger (1)

Star Citizen: - https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/
AntanKarmola on their forums

Star Wars: The Old Republic: - Not really playing
Antare Karmola - Jedi Guardian (32)
Antan Karmola - Jedi Shadow (21)
Arianae Karmola - Gunslinger (20)

nobody likes the french.

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~Ravage™
~I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
~The problem with facts, is that sometimes they don't support your opinion.

I really don’t like how lots are only a menu item. No emersion, very lazy design.

That's only temperary. Will change later. It's obviously just not a priority in terms of game design.

_________________
X2-PB

Pathfinder Kingmaker Campaign:
Gednan Malithanar - Wizard (1)
Dukin Thunderstrike - Ranger (1)

Star Citizen: - https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/
AntanKarmola on their forums

Star Wars: The Old Republic: - Not really playing
Antare Karmola - Jedi Guardian (32)
Antan Karmola - Jedi Shadow (21)
Arianae Karmola - Gunslinger (20)

ehh dont like the menu set-up... I'm gonna feel like the crafting system is Travian (or whatever that game was that we played) on crack with an awesome Pirates game attached

_________________
Ryric Krael
Former Vice President AGN
Former Director, Section 6
Former Head of Department of the Treasury
-------
Ask not what your PA can do for you, but what you can do for your PA
"Gone Section Five"

At least they could have areas of the port that function as a control point for all lots of that type. Have a forge area that everyone uses to control their forge, a mine that everyone uses to control their mine. At the least, they need something more like WoW’s crafting points located in each town.

As it is, you get on the dock and manipulate all our lots like you have a futuristic remote control for everything. Take one step off your ship and control your entire production world, then take one step back onto your ship and continue playing. What they have so far is like the crappy SWG fishing interface, or the original SWG mining interface. For a game claiming to have GREAT merchant play, this structure interface says “We cut corners to make release”, or more likely “We don’t really know what immersive merchant play is like”.



Is that just wishful thinking, or do you have proof that they play on making this better?

I wonder how many failed games said the exact same. “X is not a game design priority” then one year later in hindsight the game is killed by X. I can think of plenty such things that killed SWG. The fact that the designers don’t see this as a huge and dangerous shortcut scares the shit out of me. What other shortcuts will we find in gold? Wonder how many of them end up being game breakers.

How is it any different than EVE?
EVE has a fairly simple graphic in the background and menu systems for pretty much everything else of interest.

So on one hand, you don't have to run around from point A to point B. on the other hand, if you're not out sailing around then it will be a pretty basic looking game.

Though, I guess there are no limits to the number of structures of one type that could be built...it might be part of their overall economy plan (time will tell).

_________________
Dalaran: Arindel - Frost Mage (Mining/Alchemy)
Dalaran: Roran - Paladin (Weaponsmith/Blacksmith)
Dalaran: Baine - Rogue

THIS IS A SARCASTIC JOKE ....THIS IS A SARCASTIC JOKE...IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED DON'T READ IT

I think they should make it more realistic as well. What's that dungeon game where you torture people?

Come on this is the caribbean and southern US back in the day...every one gets slaves and they till the fields and you can figure out how much you need to beat them to up your production

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Eve has no Avatar. You are a ship.

PotBS you are an Avatar in port. You walk around


In Eve there is no factory to walk to because you can’t walk. Eventually you will be able to walk around in EVE, but because the game started with no walking, they will never make you walk to a part of a station to craft. The Sci-Fi aspect of Eve allows freedom to pretend you are doing it via something plugged into your brain. Therefore through technology you can remotely conduct station business.

Evidently in PotBS you use your 1720’s Titanium Borg Nano Implant to connect to your production collective.


I am not saying it needs to be as real as possible. I am just saying this menu system is a cop-out. It is bad game design. It does not fit the rest of the game. It falls short for a game that is proud of their production system.

I don't see this as a cop out since 'walking around' wasn't an original design consideration. That was added after the initial design was under development.

Other than what I've read about the devs, I know nothing about their integrity but I do get the impression that this game is their child and that they honestly care about it. They seem as into PotBS and the CCP folks are into Eve.

I like and respect that passion in a game developer and it was partly the designer's commitment that led me to sign up for Eve a while back. If we end up finding that commitment in a game that we enjoy, then...

_________________
Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.

I guess I am saying I'd rather have a real economy that works for the players than some simnple map where i have to walk from A to B to do things that will ultimately get me into the same menu system. Still, as a crafter I can see this potentially getting tedious or maybe it will free up more time to get into ther other aspects of the shipping game (hence alts).

As for the EVE you being in a Pod and all that is by design. they made it sound plausible, syre but it's still the same end result. You can move from ship to ship in your pod, then why couldn't you have a local transport.

Think of this as you are the captain of the ship stsying put while you send your subordinates around with your orders?

I may be a rare breed that enjoys the game play over pretty pictures? (granted there's little reason not to have both these days but game function has to be there, I'm much more forgiving with game graphics).

_________________
Dalaran: Arindel - Frost Mage (Mining/Alchemy)
Dalaran: Roran - Paladin (Weaponsmith/Blacksmith)
Dalaran: Baine - Rogue

.
All the games that I've seen have these 'covenient' immersion vs. playability limitations.
I still think its rediculous to have pets/mounts/vehicles in your back pocket.

Also remember that this game has no on-ship activity, no first person view from on deck. At sea you're a ship like in EvE.

_________________
Deak
SWTOR - Spicerunner Legacy - Smuggler - RETIRED
Rift - Decipher - Paragon - RETIRED | WAR - Frenzyof Energy - Shaman - RETIRED
WoW - Fire Mage - RETIRED | SWG - Weaponsmith - RETIRED
MMOGGLER™ for online gamers

Actually I'm having a hard time figuring what 'feel' they're going for.
You see screenshots of ships at sea looking very realistic and you see these screens where a ship is the size of an island (that or possibly flying) http://www.burningsea.com/images/screenshots/sshot060.jpg
I think this the navigation screen. This also breaks immersion imo.

_________________
Deak
SWTOR - Spicerunner Legacy - Smuggler - RETIRED
Rift - Decipher - Paragon - RETIRED | WAR - Frenzyof Energy - Shaman - RETIRED
WoW - Fire Mage - RETIRED | SWG - Weaponsmith - RETIRED
MMOGGLER™ for online gamers

I actually don't mind that navigation screen in terms of looks. The trees and general landscape aren't that great atm but I am thinking they will be improved upon by launch.

Having a large ship on this screen and the big lettering for ports is kinda nice. Besides, the camera could be zoomed in a bit to make the ship look bigger than it could be.

As long as the instanced combat zones are nicely detailed, any they tweak that navigation landscape a little bit I will be happy as I don't think they have to keep immersion to its full extent.

I also don't mind just the UI tool for plots/crafting for now but would expect a little bit more eventually. At least make it ala WoW where we have to walk to a building or terminal inside town somewhere. But don't make it excessive either. I hate walking point to point just for the sake of immersion sometimes (think the long runs to IF or Ogrimmar forges).

_________________
"I built me a bomb and dropped it on every MFer who got in my way!"

Games can’t be everything to everyone, and it is hard to please everyone all the time. WoW was not designed for the crafter play style…. But they don’t pretend to be. PotBS is pretending to be a game with robust “production economy”, however I am beginning to think they have designed something akin to Ep1 C3P0… good internals but no coverings. $15/month games need coverings, they need polish, they need to be complete. Mafia, Kingdom of Loathing, other free web games can afford to have their mechanics showing, they are free. After SWG’s disaster, after WoW’s success, I wont pay for another half finished MMO.

From the perspective of someone interested in the crafting/merchant play style, I worry the lot interface is a bad sign of developers lacking attention to detail in the crafting merchant department. I happen to be a player who enjoys attention to detail. Therefore this area is key to my enjoyment. It is also key when it comes to me recruiting my wife and friends into a game where our main focus will be crafting.

Call it a new design addition, call it outside of the original design spec, call the devs the best thing since pong… its either a lack of forethought, or a lack of attention to detail. We can put on our fanboy capes and pretend all is well, but last time that action did us no good. We saw the same crap in SWG.

SOE said crafting would be great but signs were everywhere indicating the crafting part of the game was rough draft version at best. I refuse to be a fanboy, I will love great game companies, but I will not lie to this community, I will call a spade a spade. The crafting / merchant portion of POTBS is beginning to show signs of being a rough draft version.

So what else is making you think that way Cy?

PS - Not trying to sway things one way or the other, just stirring the pot on what is an important discussion for a largely crafting-minded community.

Sorry - leaving work now and can't post any further comments.

_________________
"I built me a bomb and dropped it on every MFer who got in my way!"

I agree $15 a month does desrve to be a more finished product and I would go further and say at production launch -- a fairly stable product.

But, how can you say it is half finished if that was the design requirements? I still say that EVE is basically the same interface and you can tell me that it goes with their plot that you are in a pod and not a moving entity and they have technology that moves these things around. You could also say they contrived a nice story to work with their lack of an interface and works well with getting multiple lives. in the end, the interface is potentially the same.

All in all, we still have little information to base these things on. It might be that the economy was well planned and not placed into nice graphics. But if the expectations aren't up to snuff, then I guerss they won't be seeing yours (or my) purchase

_________________
Dalaran: Arindel - Frost Mage (Mining/Alchemy)
Dalaran: Roran - Paladin (Weaponsmith/Blacksmith)
Dalaran: Baine - Rogue

On the other hand this is the only game that has the most attention to detail on moving resources and commodities and puts a 'covering' on it.

I'm not sure how accurate what has been written here about the interface really is. I have read about about this game having an NPC in port that is 'your' project foreman that you give production instructions to and collect your goods from (bank or auction house style). This is a crafting system that to avoid grind, you don't craft anything. 'Your workers' make everything in 'your structures'. Not sure if there is really a need to see these workers working in the same way you don't see those shipping crews moving commodites around in the mail system.

_________________
Deak
SWTOR - Spicerunner Legacy - Smuggler - RETIRED
Rift - Decipher - Paragon - RETIRED | WAR - Frenzyof Energy - Shaman - RETIRED
WoW - Fire Mage - RETIRED | SWG - Weaponsmith - RETIRED
MMOGGLER™ for online gamers

A few weeks ago I read a post that pretty much said the same thing about the lot interface. I had made a post about it but held off posting it until I heard it from a more reliable source. I ended up closing Word without saving and lost the post… but I had been thinking about this interface ever since then.

This is the only concrete thing thus far that makes suspicious. But it causes me to wonder about their planed use of ports. How grand and exciting will these ports be? Without utilizing the lot/structure system as location within the ports, I get the feeling ports will be rather bland. What is the point of having great character customization if they are planning to do everything Eve menu style? Make us walk a bit to show off some of that pirate flare.

Then I wonder if they did not even think it important to design a better lot/structure interface, what will the guild interface be like? Games should be evolving. SWG has ass guild tools, Eve had better, WoW was pretty good. The next generation games should be even better. But I am now thinking guild tools will yet be another menu. It is time games make instanced guild locations within cities/ports. Places to hangout, stash shared resources, a place to call our own.

I have posted a lot, but this is not a pure game breaker for me. However I see it as a sign that the devs and I are not on the same page with it comes to a fun immersive merchant experience. I doubt I can attract others, like my wife, to join our crafting empire if by crafting I mean play with these boring menus.

Yea Deak, and this is beta. What is a menu today may evolve into a NPC next week. That would be progress.

I thought I read a post on the FLS Dev boards that hinted that they were going to expand the ground game in a future release. Can't remember if it was a Dev post or just fan speculation/hope tho.

If that were true I would expect it to include expanded port operations (i.e. walking around) and even jungle safaris to find that long lost buried treasure. Instanced guildhouses/lots would also fall into that category.

Oh and I just thought of something. Aren't the quest givers, taverns, and merchant houses in ports? Therefore I expect to still have a decent amount of running around inside ports to do. Likely have to run to a 'foreman' as noted previously here to open the interface. Not totally immersive but I could live with that for R1 (release 1).

_________________
"I built me a bomb and dropped it on every MFer who got in my way!"