Avian Gamers Network

So I picked up WoW yesterday and started playing it a bit. I had not really wanted to at first but the more I played (and liked EQII) the more I missed grouping with my Fellow Avians.

At first glance at the manual I thought WoW would be very similar to EQII. While they do hold the traditional "MMO Archtypes" that is really about the only immediate similarity.

Graphics: I never played WarCraft, although I had seen it played a lot, so I do not have an immediate connection to the graphic 'style' of WoW. I do not dislike the graphics but I do much prefer the more realistic EQII graphics. Both games in my opinion have stellar graphics but they just come from different sides of the realism coin.

World: Again I have only played WoW for about 8 hours but I have seen 2 of the cities in WoW and I believe that the worlds seem to be about the same size. The City Architecture is similar and I have always thought that EQII had some stellar cities and designs. I would have to nod toward WoW on strictly the City design do to the amazing lighting work and hues of Blue and Greens. The Atmosphere is really just an amazing thing in WoW. After that I would have to nod, for now, to EQII for Overall World design. I really like WoW woodland areas but for now EQII seems to have a bigger, brighter world and this is where I spend my time hunting so I want this to be open and unconfining. I feel in WoW it almost reverts back to the days of old in the Border Walls and Restrictive movement via well placed Hills and trees. I think EQII does this but they are just better at hiding it. I do not like the idea of being limited where I can go, even if it is just 'Over that Hill'.

Archtypes: Easily you just have to give this to EQII. They have been designing and balancing Archtypes for almost 10 years now and it shows. A vast supply or Classes and subclasses all very well balanced and diverse. EQII just did a stellar job with there Class and Spell Systems. While no class is a 'Solo' Class you can solo in EQII you just need to be wise in your attacks. Groups and Grouping are clearly the designed menthod for leveling here.

WoW has a rather slim Class system. Only a small handful for Archtypes and really no Sub-Classes to speak of. They also restrict who can be what. In EQII if you want an Ogre Priest then go out and make one. In WoW if you want an Undead Priest, well no such luck. I think the heart of any MMO should be the ability to do what you want when you want and not be restricted but what could be preceved as "Design Limitations".

I actually thought about the Classes (or lack of) for WoW yesterday and I actually applaud Blizzard for thier choice in Limited Archtypes. They have never made an MMO before, and hands down the hardest thing about Classes is Balance. In limiting thier Classes they limit their Balance issues and this is extremely clear in the down right Flawless Balance of each Class. I play a WoW Druid and while still a low level I have a wide range of skills at my play. I can Heal my Group or I can Solo most things at or 1 above my Level. This is something I just love.

Blizzard can always come back and add more Archtypes, DAOC just added 5-7 to their game and it has been out forever. But what they cannot add is Sub-classes. I feel Sub-Classes will be missed by players as a way to fine tune thier character choices. I play a Druid, but am I a Fighter-Healer or a Healer-Fighter? I see that you can choose which spells to buy and customize your toon better that way but for some reason Title are everything in an MMO and without Titled Sub-Classes I wonder how the endgame will come out.

--

Both games have very well done Quests. I just love the XP gains from the WoW quests and I find them, at least at my level, challenging and fun. EQII in my opinion has the most diverce NOC Quests I have ever seen. What I love so much about them is that if I want a break from fighting/grinding I can run into town and take 2 dozen quests from NPC all around a Village then run to every Village and City and complete them. Most are non-combat or light combat and have excellent loot rewards. WoW, while having equal loot rewards, seems to be all about go kill this or find that way far out of the way place. For now, and this may change, EQII gets my nod for Quests but to be fair they are both very well done.

In the end I see why both games are very popular. They are both extremely well done and each deserve the praise they are getting. It really is a coin toss which is a better system - I didn't even get into the XML Tools for Wow (which are off teh charts cool!) or the housing and crafting systems of EQII - needless to say each game is amazing and the one you play is the right choice as they are both great play.

As for me. My heart for now is in EQII but I will probably stick around WoW for no other reason as to play with my Guildies. It was great fun having 10-20 people to talk to and ask questions of ingame.

I truely believe if more people had tried EQII ealier on most would be playing that. We went the way of WoW and as it is a great game that is where everyone wound up.

I know I missed a lot of stuff, crafting and such, but I just wanted ot offer my 2cents on the two games now that I have played them both. Again to my EQII is the better game but WoW is a very close second if not damn near tied!

_________________
Moge

I will add this:
Wow Servers seem to be down a lot. They are down now and it is almost noon here.

_________________
Moge

Thanks for the review Moge, well written.

Not having played EQII (or EQ for that matter) I won't try comparing the two other than to say that WoW is a faster game in terms of leveling and you can play several characters to satisfy your varying playstyles. One thing about the lack of subclasses though; you have talents from lvl 10, which can help define your character the way you want it. Not all talent builds are viable of course, but it still helps a great deal in making your character what you want him/her to be.

Edit: The servers are down today because of the regular weekly maintenance; each tuesday from 6am to 10am PST.

_________________
"It's sort of a philosophical question...if a tissue fails to modify a skill that doesn't exist, and no one is around, will any devs hear you screaming?"

Kharlaq hit on the one note that I was goingto say about sub-classes. For mage/paladin there are 3 areas you can gain talents in. Some of the talents stack into a single bucket to give you further increases and you need toi apply a certain number in order to unlock higher talents.

Also, you collect 1 at 10 and 1 for each level after that so you are limited. You can use/buy any and all spells, but you will find you don't have coin for everything so you will have to pick and choose.

I believe EQII to be a deeper game compared to WOW and might have longer legs in the end. Blizzard MMO's tend to be more like Action games with RPG tendancies. This is a true MMO, but they still have alot of experience in fun/fast and furious play. It will be interesting to see how it will go over time.

Also, Blizzard does have quite a bit of balance experience and you can see alot of Diablo/Siablo II in these games (which were excellent games with simplistic, yet complicated systems).

_________________
Dalaran: Arindel - Frost Mage (Mining/Alchemy)
Dalaran: Roran - Paladin (Weaponsmith/Blacksmith)
Dalaran: Baine - Rogue

Yes, great review, Moge and I think its very fair.

As Kharlaq mentioned, talents define the subclasses. In fact, I've taken to referring to Liro as a Holy Paladin because I made the decision to put all my talent points into the Holy section - becoming quite a healer! It would be cool if, at like level 55, your class name changed based on where you had invested your points. Each class could then have 3-5 subclasses.

_________________
Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.

I will need to read about talents as this is the first I am hearing of them. I am 8.75 now so should easily make 10 today.

Im a Druid so I may get the Healing powers but I am not sure.
I like the idea of a Holy-Pali. Might be my next alt.

In games like these I usually always go Healer as I find nothing more maddening than having a bad healer in your group.

_________________
Moge

I did an EQ2 vs. WoW comparison about a month ago here.

The only thing I would change about what I said there is that right now, I'd rather be playing WoW! LOL. Main reason for this is the Avian presence, the ease of play, and the fun factor. EQ2 is scary and amazingly powerful, but WoW is just more fun for me right now. I don't have too much time to play right now, so I can't really log in and plan on playing 4-8 hours, find a good group, and get totally immersed. If I could do this, EQ2 would hold a lot more stock in my book. I just see it as far too intensively group based at this point. Maybe that's cuz I only hit level 14 and the higher levels are more soloable... I'm not sure.

I LOVE the rested XP thing in WoW too. Works great for me as usually when I log in for a couple hours I am gaining double XP cuz I only play a couple times a week. I played for 4 hours the other night and dinged twice. I like getting that sense of accomplishment from WoW.


Also, I must say iJasonT, Paladins rock! I think you'd really like them. They can really be good healers, esp. if you concentrate talent points on healing. They also make good tanks and can hold their own in a fight quite well. I haven't talked to anyone who disliked playing them. Then again, I haven't really heard many bad things about any of the classes.

_________________
TheMole
Section 5
Section 5
Section 5
Now Playing: WoW
--------------------

I have to agree on all your points there. If I had to choose one and know that Avian was behind me I would choose EQII easily. But everyone is in WoW so I am here. I like the game it's just I like EQII a tiny bit better (not enough to not play WoW).

Rest XP is a very cool thing. Was a neat thing to log in today and ding so quick my doulble XP on my first 5-8 kills.

I am making a Palidin now as I think you are right in that they are good healers and tanks. Nice combo.

I'll keep Moge (Druid) and maybe make Maili a chick-ball-kick'n Holy Pali!

_________________
Moge

It is definitely harder to solo in EQ2, especially at the lower levels and effective play sessions require more time - much less than SWG, but more than WoW.

I am up to 26 Swashbuckler and its only been the last couple levels that I've been able to solo effectively. There's a patch that is soon to be released that addresses (hopefully) the issue of lack of solo content which will definitely be good. See this link for what is coming: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=4

I haven't had a problem finding groups - especially with the lack of Avians currently in EQ2 - but at times it has mitigated the fun factor as grouping with friends is ALWAYS better than with strangers...until you turn them into friends

For me it is good to know that there is a core group of guildies regardless of which game I play. The folks in WoW have been very helpful, but I am playing EQ2 much more and wish there were more Avians playing, but I'm having fun nonetheless and look forward to seeing more give the game a try in the future and wish eveyone a happy gaming experience whatever they play

_________________

I didn't play EQ, so I don't have much to comment.



In fact that example is badly chosen, because you can be an Undead Priest. But I thank the perceived lack of classes in WoW is an asset, not a liability. It makkes your initial choice of class not quite such a daunting one, because you have to make a choice without having much information in the beginning. The EQII system of developing into a specilized class is mmeant to make it better, but it doesn't because you have to do more research to make sure you get the subclasses you will want to play, and not get to try it out for another 20 levels.

WoW, on the other hand let's you pick from a smalll number of balanced and fun classes most of which let you solo with equal ease as getting you into a group.

But then, I might be biased

Edward

I really liked Mantison's point that WoW is simply an incredibly fun game to play where EQII is an excellent roleplaying vehicle. I do RP here and there but find it incredibly difficult to "stay in character" with all the hyenas running around. However, I do still remember the group I had with Cyrus and Danyale - fun times and fun RPing - always looking forward to more!

_________________
Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.

I think this the statement boils down to the two different ways the companies handled their NDA. Blizzard lifted their NDA as soon as closed beta started, resulting in almost a year of information and hype to be generated. SOE lifted their NDA at the very last minute. As a result I knew volumes of WoW material, and I knew almost nothing about EQII.

I don’t buy many games... and being that I only buy games I feel will be a hit, I bought WoW because I knew so much about it and what I knew I liked.

I could easily see myself playing EQII if the ways the NDAs were handled had been switched.

That is an excellent point Cyrus. Hadn't thought of that but you are very correct.

_________________
Moge