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**SPOILER ALERT **

If you haven't watched The Lord of the Rings, 1) shame on you and 2) this post and those to follow will give away parts of the tale and may detract from your experience when you do read/watch it (I recommend you read it first).


You have been warned!




I've been watching the extended versions of the three movies and finished The Return of King tonight. Additionally, I've read the books some time ago (and want to again soon). However, I have a question about the tale that I'd like to have a little discussion about and get some points of view.

In the final minutes of The Return of the King, as Frodo boards the elvish boat along with the Elven leaders, Bilbo and Gandalf as way of explanation why he must leave he says to Sam, "We set out to save the Shire and it is saved, but not for me." What do you think he meant by that?

At first I thought he said "but not from me" which made sense thinking that all those who interacted with the One Ring were some form of threat themselves. However, after rewinding and enabling subtitles I learned his actual words and so far I haven't come up with an explanation of that phrase. I'd love to hear from all on this.

Furthermore, brush up on your LotR lore - I think it would be fun to discuss various aspects of the story (book or movie) here.

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Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.

well i have not read the books, but have watched the movies many times.

maybe too many bad memories? maybe being there is a constant reminder of the year they were gone. maybe the journey aged him inside. frodo always seem more intense than the other hobbits to me. like he understood the ways of the world. maybe he couldnt take the carefree lifestyle of the shire. maybe, more of his life was inside bilbo than was in the shire. frodo, at that point, had seen more, done more, killed more, experienced more, etc, than any other hobbit had. maybe he couldnt bring back the shire in the way everyone else had remembered it.

tis a good question.

Lord of the Rings is still fresh in my mind as I watched it a couple of weeks ago for the first time

I left my hometown at the age of 14 to live in Hong Kong - at 25 I moved to Cyprus and then lived in various locations around the UK. I had many adventures along the way and when I found myself back in my hometown to live I couldn't settle. I had changed too much and yet nothing had changed there. I had outgrown it and felt that it no longer had anything to offer me - I couldn't relate to anybody anymore as I had experienced much more than them, opened my eyes and seen the bigger picture.

That was how I saw Frodo - he had outgrown the Shire and whilst the others were content, even relieved, to be back to their perceived normality; there was no challenge there for Frodo.

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Enter MoonWorld

Moon's explanation is brillant.

The other aspect is that he cannot go on living in the Shire due to the taint and memories that carrying the One Ring has left on him. Even though the Shire may be pleasant ot live in (or will become pleasant again, especially after the record harvesting year of 1420 S.R.) it is not enough to take his mind off the trying times of carrying the One. And it seems the Council knows this in allowing him to go into the West as the first Halfling ever to stand before the Lords of the West. Only there in the Blessed Lands can his mind even start to find peace.

Edward

I think he just wanted to sail off to find himself a short elf hottie.

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--The Hermit

LOL@Yak

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I think Moon is absolutely right. It's that whole "can't ever go home again" thing. The Shire had been preserved in their ignorant bliss of the world's evils. Frodo had not. I think he knew that after a short time, he would have simply grown frustrated at their lack care for anything but the Shire.

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President Green Team Racing (GTR) YRM
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Yes, I think that a splinter from the Morgul knife the Witchking stuck into Frodo's shoulder on Weathertop remainded in the wound. I am not sure the Elven healing arts could remove it.

Edward
remembers way too much of this

If I remember correctly from the books, all the ring bearers were to eventually travel to the west (Sam bore the ring, if only for a short time). Frodo had nothing left to keep him from going and he was very close to Bilbo, who was going. Sam, on the other hand, had just got himself married (and possibly had kids by that time) and still had plenty of reasons to stay.


Ok, that doesn't explain the dialog, but it's the reason why Sam wasn't allowed to go.

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"We set out to save the Shire and it is saved, but not for me."

That is how I understood it all along. I probably did not really consider it the first few times I saw the movie. But I put a cheap DVD player in my bed room and the stupid things sometimes show the subtitles even when you tell it not to. So in one way or another I have been walking around thinking the words were "We set out to save the Shire and it is saved, but not for me."


My take on this phrase is this:

Middle Earth
A few minutes earlier the movie shows that Frodo still suffers from the wound Witchking’s blade gave him. Also the movie shows that Frodo is having trouble fitting into his surroundings. Unlike his friends, the trauma of his journey has left Frodo forever changed. They all are changed to some degree, but Frodo seems to be having the hardest time reverting back to his old jolly self. Be it his inability to return to the simplistic shire-only-thinking, or his wound’s constant reminder of the terror he underwent.

I think he realizes that he no longer has a place in the shire. The shire he knew before his journey will never return to him. Ironically the place is the same… Frodo just cant see it in the same naive fun loving light. He had given it years to come back to him… it never came back, so he took the last boat out.

World War I
There is a lot of WWI in LotR because Tolkin was a product of that time and that war. I imagine Fordo’s state of mind is like those WWI solders. They had seen and experienced horrors beyond the comprehension of those they served to protect. Solders came back “mysterious” and “removed”. I do not recall Tolkins role in the war, but I would not doubt that Frodo’s condition is akin to either Tolkins post war condition… or someone else Tolkin knew.

I know in the directors commentary Jackson talks about the scene where the hobbits are at the table in the shire, quietly sharing a drink. They do not talk, but their eyes tell each other that they are all thinking the same thing. They are in a fog of remembrance… and an understanding that they almost did not make it back. This is a scene directly reflecting post WWI conditions.

After World War I many solders could not stay with the family and friends they had before the war started. The moved off, to the Americas, or to the East, anywhere but home. This is basically what Frodo does at the end of LotR.

Good answers, all!

When I re-read the books, I'll take note of the destiny of each of the Ringbearers but I believe both schools of answers is correct.



As a matter of fact, yes, he had two kids according to the extended version, noticed them last night.

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Liro
"The english language is not a wedding gown, it doesn't get better the more lace you add. It is instead a thong. Less is more." From /.
I need to remind myself of this regularly.

Moon's explanation is very good and will probably apply for me some day, too

However, I think it's not just that. When they are all sitting at the table, you can see from all their expressions that they are thinking: "Look at that simpleton with the damn pumpkin, he has no idea." They are all four of them victims of having had their world view expanded.

However, the books have one more element, which was not present in the movie. When Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin come back to the Shire, they find it occupied by Saruman and Grima (Saruman with no magic powers). Merry and Pippin use their fighting experience gained in the battlefield to become leaders of the uprising and thus gain a lot of status with the Shire folk. Sam get married and domesticated. Frodo just lays low and mind his own business, the Shire folk don't even know that he is the real hero, who has won the war. I think he acts that way because of the emptiness present after the One Ring is destroyed.

I think that is why he does not feel a part of middle Earth anymore and he goes West.

BTW, in the books, Sam actually gets to put on the ring and is invisible at the battle in the tower at Cirith Ungol (if I remember correctly). So he really is a ring bearer in the truest sense of the word.

Man, I can't believe myself. It must be at least 8 years since I have last read the books and I remember all this stuff.

/nerd mode off

Oh, who am I kidding, that switch doesn't exist!

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Retired Weaponsmith

That is exactly how I saw that scene.

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Exponential Expansion of Consciousness, Coming Soon to a Planet Near You!

Enter MoonWorld

My /nerdmode switch never works either.

Basically, what everyone has already said is correct. It is the old theme of "You can't go home again." The Shire is a wonderful, idyllic place, full of wonderful, naive inhabitants. Naivete can be blessed, beautiful, and joyous, but one you are not longer naive, you can't go back. The genie can't go back in the bottle.

Frodo has seen and done more than just about anyone else in Middle Earth, let alone the Shire. His soul has been molded and shaped into something entirely different than who he used to be. Knowledge always carries with it a huge price, and Frodo simply finds that he no longer fits with the Shire. He is so world-weary that the peaceful lull of the rolling hills and green hills of the Shire no longer pull at him, and instead he needs something more, something to counter the terrible experiences he's witnessed and been a part of.

Its a little like growing up and loving McDonald's food. Its wonderful, its great, it tastes good, and you get to play in the play-place. But then as you grow up, you still enjoy McDonald's food, but you realize it just doesn't hold a candle to a good steak and shrimp dinner, or lobster, or something along those lines. Its still is good, but it doesn't fulfill you or satisfy you like it once did, and you crave something more.

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